posts that I think will get deleted at DN

[Eyes High]

Golly Eyes! Is this your first idiot?

You go get em gal!

Well maybe my first that seems so down right serious about it
The other just seemed more joking than this one.

Oh, BTW, remind me not to fly w/any of those pilots

[Eyes High]

...

Why the sad face

never mind....my brian is just not working. It wasn't until I was showing the posts to my husband that it popped into my head... Oh yeah, laughing until he cried.

Take it easy on me guys. I'm an young girl trapped in an old lady's body.

[lotek]

never mind....my brian is just not working

nobody's brian is actually doing anything really...

[Eyes High]

never mind....my brian is just not working

nobody's brian is actually doing anything really...

yeap, that's what I get for trying to type at 0300. hehehheheh. Okay, I'm going back to bed now.

[A Thing of Eternity]

And it didn't fail to deliver:

Any more? You can just read your precious books by FH and ignore these. I'd like some of these people I've seen on Amazon.com to come over here. There're only like seven of them. Rolling Eyes

LOL @seven people! That pretty much settles it. Majority rules, the new Dune books rock! Hey, we should compare the site traffic on this board with wherever it is that they post, just to show them how truly pathetic their little "OH movement" is. Anyone know how to do that?

I know your almighty idiot probably doesn't have a clue
But maybe someone should show the latest Us vs Them to that moron

Must be a troll/sockpuppet, it's simply too damned good of a setup.

Anyone looking for a Blaze of Glory, now IS the time. Go post the last Us vs Them statistics. Do it. Do it now!

[Freakzilla]

And it didn't fail to deliver:

Any more? You can just read your precious books by FH and ignore these. I'd like some of these people I've seen on Amazon.com to come over here. There're only like seven of them. Rolling Eyes

LOL @seven people! That pretty much settles it. Majority rules, the new Dune books rock! Hey, we should compare the site traffic on this board with wherever it is that they post, just to show them how truly pathetic their little "OH movement" is. Anyone know how to do that?

I know your almighty idiot probably doesn't have a clue
But maybe someone should show the latest Us vs Them to that moron

Must be a troll/sockpuppet, it's simply too damned good of a setup.

Anyone looking for a Blaze of Glory, now IS the time. Go post the last Us vs Them statistics. Do it. Do it now!

GET IN DA CHOPPA, BILLY!

[Eyes High]

Okay, what happened over on Dune novels this morning. There was that one thread that seemed to be getting so many responses and now every single post from allizkaerF on down is gone?

[SandChigger]

Sounds like Byron Merritt woke up or pulled his fingers out of his ass?

[SandRider]

okay, what happened over on Dune novels this morning.

dunno. Merritt won't let me play with him in his yard anymore,
and he's too scared to come over to my house ....


I smell that good ol' fashioned FREAKBANNIN' wagon,
a-comin' around the bend ....

[Eyes High]

Well lucky enough I copied StarGazer's latest post before it was gone. Not for sure why I saved it but glad I did.

I’m not even sure where to begin so let’s go somewhat in order.

...

If I remember correctly, Brian Herbert has said that he was led to the notes when a psychic medium channeled his mother, who was able to read the notes from a piece of paper on the other side of the death barrier. I, personally, do not believe in an ethereal, supernatural plane, or "heaven/hell" per se, or "alternate universe," and I would describe this in a scientific manner, as a transmission of information through technology which only SEEMS to be magical in nature.

Okay, not trying to cast any negativity on a person’s belief, but how many people actually buy into that explanation? If those notes where so important then wouldn’t Frank had made sure that either his wife or son knew where they were? And forgive me but I can’t remember which wife was Brian’s mother but if his mother out lived Frank then wouldn’t she had told her son where his father’s notes were without waiting for a chance visit from beyond the grave? Give the readers a little more credit than that. With statements like that I can see why some fans doubt the notes even exist.

At any rate, I have always understood the resulting document to be a very detailed outline, so I have assumed that it is one or two hundred pages long, considering the number of words Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert have written in the Dune Universe, which I am assuming is in the hundreds of millions, if not billions, by now. I write pamphlets with about five to ten pages of material, including pictures and illustrations, and I will typically use a page and a half worth of outline. In fact, now that I think about it, the outline must be in the high hundreds, if not over one thousand pages long.

Okay, this just seems like a difference in terminology. I was taught that an outline is brief and gives just the basics. Outlines don’t go on for pages and pages. Notes do, but not outlines. But I will give the benefit of doubt here. Things might have changed over the years. Perhaps I misunderstood my teachers when they explained what an outline was.

Someone has said that they do not want to discuss the quality of the writing, and I wonder why that is? I think that the quality of the writing should be a part of this debate because I believe that changes in the universe created by the original books can be justified by good storytelling. And, personally, I prefer the writing style of Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert. I think it's punchy. I like action. So many things happen off screen in Frank Herbert books that make me think, "Wait a minute! Tell me how that happened! Leto is a worm with his face stuck on it!? How did that happen!? Gurney's sister was tortured!? How exactly did that happen!? The Fremen killed billions of innocent people!? WHEN!? Show me, don't tell me!"

I know this is a controversial opinion in some circles, and I almost never hear people supporting the writing style of Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert, because it's not the cool thing to do. It's cool to think old stuff is good, and not cool to admit that you like new stuff. I think that without the cool factor, Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert's writing is superior to Frank Herbert's. People may disagree with me, but I like action, and I think if you like action, you've gotta like the new books. Feel free to disagree.

Okay, I agree here to a point. Quality should be fair game for an open discussion. But comparing Frank’s work with Anderson’s I don’t believe is feasible. They are so different from each other it would be like saying bananas are better than apples because they are easier to peel.

There is nothing wrong with action. I like action movies. I like some books with actions in them but Dune is NOT action. Dune is a thinking man’s/woman’s book. Dune got you to thinking… really thinking. It challenged you to use your mind, to use one’s deciphering capabilities.

I don’t want to be spoon fed. Give my mind the chance to discover what’s going on behind the scenes and in between the lines. I’m not a ten-year-old that needs things spelled out every single time, (and NO I’M NOT calling you a child) I’m a grown adult who still likes to exercise her mind sometimes.

I think what I’m trying to say, and maybe other fans as well, is that if the new authors are going to claim to be writing in the Dune universe as set up by Frank then write closer to his style. Before anyone says it, I know that no one is going to be able to write like Frank, but they can get a little closer than what’s being done now. If the new authors are going to gear their books toward the young adult genre then say so. If they want to reach they type of people that Frank reached then try a little harder to get things right.

As a friend pointed out to me… “Why do you think that people are still discussing Frank Herbert’s Dune and the sequels he wrote?” In my opinion it is because he challenged his readers. He treated them like thinking human beings that had the intelligence to understand what was put before them and if they didn’t understand then they wouldn’t mind finding the answers themselves. That might be over simplifying but I hope my fellow members here can understand what I’m TRYING to say.

I am curious to know why you don't think the new books are consistent with the universe created in the old books, because I never notice unless someone points something out to me, and I look it up, and even then it usually means nothing to me because I don't really understand why it matters that the thing is different. I don't think it matters. Why does it matter? And what is "it?"

Without the books in front of me I can’t point out ever single one, sorry I’m still too new to the intriguing world of Dune. I’m sure there are fans out there that can give better examples than I.

However, the main one that comes to mind right now is the issue of Paul’s birth place. In Dune it was stated that he was born on Caladin and had never left it until his move to Dune. Now this must have been important because Frank placed it on the very first page.

Imagine yourself as a 15 year old young man who has lived in isolation somewhat. You’ve been trained in combat, in governmental procedures, and your mother has even taught you stuff that many didn’t want her to teach you. Yet with all this hard training you have had your life has been managed for you. You have been surrounded by body guards. Your food and drink are checked for poisons, even if you were not aware of all of the security measures set in place for your protection it had to have an effect on you and your behavior. You have no siblings to play with; to argue with. You are surrounded by adults most of the time. Possibly all of the time. Now you are told that you are leaving the only world you have ever known and going to a place that is harsh. You’ve overheard how dangerous it’s going to be. You go from a world rich in water to a place where people recycle their body fluids just to survive.

After you have arrived and barely gotten settled in, your father is killed. You are taken from your home, you and your mother are left to die and suddenly you know more than you ever really cared to know. Then you are almost taken in the desert and are forced to fight for your life and that of your mother’s. You are no longer isolated like you had been the previous 15 years. How do you think that would affect your psyche?

Wouldn’t that boy act different than one that had been off world before and even had adventures?

Small changes don’t matter that much. But changes that effect how a character would respond in situations matter a great deal.

I am interested to hear what people think about this because I don't think that it matters. Or, at least, I'm not sure why it matters. And I don't think writing is necessarily "better" if it's more complicated.

I like to understand what I read, and I like to be titillated. Is there something wrong with that? [/i]

Writing is not necessarily better if it’s complicated but the same can be said for ‘easy readings.’ There is nothing wrong in being titillated, but on the same hand there is nothing wrong with being challenged to expand one’s mind.

Dune, as Frank wrote it, is a challenging book. And one can be exited and entertained with a challenging book. They don’t all have to be action packed.

Quantity does not equal quality. Please don’t mistake numbers for content. This long post of mine, counting your words, is over 1600. Does that make it great….no it doesn’t. In fact I’m sure there are mistakes in here and that many people will disagree with what I’ve said and/or how I’ve said it.

My issue is: If one is going to use Dune as the selling point, then stick with Dune… if not, then call it what it is. Whatever that might be.

[D Pope]

Great catch Eyes! Well Done!
This is the reason Jacurutu exists isn't it?

Maybe we could add a Jacurutu Medal of Honor to the smileys for those who deserve more than a cookie.

Why isn't Star Gazer a member here? I love learning new stuff about Dune, no doubt she would too.

It rubs me wrong that ElohimGhola won't get to read that. While it probably wouldn't do any good, I have to believe that some hope is better than none and that's just about as gentle an approach as is possible. What a shame.

(Edited to get EGs name right.)

[merkin muffley]

ElohimGhola didn't even get a chance to talk about his pamphlets.

[Sev]

As you say, there's not a damn thing here that warrants a deletion, let alone a banning - it eloquently highlights a lot of the home truths that Byron can't bear to acknowledge, can't afford to acknowledge, as he's got too much time and effort invested in the new books. Sad really, so much for 'criticism is fine as long as it's constructive' and 'three strikes and you're out'.

If anyone from the HLP is looking at this - pull the plug on it now, it's degenerated into an embarassment, not only to Frank Herbert, but also to yourselves.

[D Pope]

The topic or post you requested does not exist

Like it never happened.

[TheDukester]

Speechless.

A new low for Freakin' Meow.

(Unless Anderjacket ordered him to delete it all ... )

But, whichever. Either way highlights the HLP's stunning hypocrisy.

[Eyes High]

Great catch Eyes! Well Done!
This is the reason Jacurutu exists isn't it?

Maybe we could add a Jacurutu Medal of Honor to the smileys for those who deserve more than a cookie.

Why isn't Star Gazer a member here? I love learning new stuff about Dune, no doubt she would too.

It rubs me wrong that ElohimGhola won't get to read that. While it probably wouldn't do any good, I have to believe that some hope is better than none and that's just about as gentle an approach as is possible. What a shame.

(Edited to get EGs name right.)

If I remember correctly when I looked in over there yesterday morning, he had replied to Star Gazer but it was a bunch of nonsense. Something about not reading to be challenged but reading to be tittalated.

I don't know if StarGazer got a chance to reply before everything was yanked. When I went back that afternoon everything new on that thread had been removed and it was back on page 3 or 4. Just goes to show that what some have said all along is correct. DN doesn't want open discussions.

[Freakzilla]

Okay, what happened over on Dune novels this morning. There was that one thread that seemed to be getting so many responses and now every single post from allizkaerF on down is gone?

I've been Allizkaerf banned?

[SadisticCynic]

And nice catch Eyes High.
Star Gazer's post was pretty good.

[Freakzilla]

I guess, more accurately it would be "Kaerf-Banned".

[Nekhrun]

I guess, more accurately it would be "Kaerf-Banned".

Wouldn't it be Alliz-banned?

[Freakzilla]

I guess, more accurately it would be "Kaerf-Banned".

Wouldn't it be Alliz-banned?

That does sound better, like a magic word.

[lotek]

I guess, more accurately it would be "Kaerf-Banned".

Wouldn't it be Alliz-banned?

That does sound better, like a magic word.

[SandChigger]

So have you been quasi-banned again?

[Freakzilla]

So have you been quasi-banned again?

I haven't checked, yet. Can't get there from here.

[SandChigger]

There's a New England farmer to city slicker joke in there somewhere...ayup.