posts that I think will get deleted at DN

[TheDukester]

Shit, for all we know they were both lies somehow.

If anyone could pull that off, it would Spanky's padawan learner Freakin Meow ...

[Serkanner]

Ok, while I think this probably should go in Shut Up Byron and Posts that I think should be deleted from DN I'm going to post it here for the sake of closure on this topic:

You mentioned something that comes from the Dune Encyclopedia as being from God Emperor of Dune. It seems to me that perhaps you've read the DE and are maybe confusing the two books in this instance.

You're probably right. I've read it since that post.

Now, anyone buy that?

Lol ... I don't buy it for a second.

[Freakzilla]

Wow, how did I miss this topic?

To start off with, many of the people who are unhappy feel they new were deceived by the selling point of the prequels, which was said needed to be read to understand the sequels. After paying for and reading all those books the only thing which wouldn't be understood without the sequels is why Omnius and Erasmus, characters from the prequels which the authors admit were their own creations, were in the sequels.

The KJA-BH books contradict and are inconsistent with FH's books in theme and details, the examples of which fill pages and pages on another forum. It is the opinion of some that this points to a lack of research and a lack of respect for FH's work and his fans.

I won't go into the quality of the writing itself, I think the first two points are enough.

http://forum.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/view ... 1824#71824" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SandChigger]

Hyppo's comments are hilarious. "I'm not Britney Spears!" NO FUCKING SHIT!

I especially love the subtext in everything she posts; it's a steady beat, thrumming beneath the surface:

"I AM A CUNT! I AM A CUNT! I AM A ...."

[Serkanner]

Hyppo's comments are hilarious. "I'm not Britney Spears!" NO FUCKING SHIT!

I especially love the subtext in everything she posts; it's a steady beat, thrumming beneath the surface:

"I AM A CUNT! I AM A CUNT! I AM A ...."

Self-righteous bitch comes to mind when I read that.

[Eyes High]

Wow, how did I miss this topic?

To start off with, many of the people who are unhappy feel they new were deceived by the selling point of the prequels, which was said needed to be read to understand the sequels. After paying for and reading all those books the only thing which wouldn't be understood without the sequels is why Omnius and Erasmus, characters from the prequels which the authors admit were their own creations, were in the sequels.

The KJA-BH books contradict and are inconsistent with FH's books in theme and details, the examples of which fill pages and pages on another forum. It is the opinion of some that this points to a lack of research and a lack of respect for FH's work and his fans.

I won't go into the quality of the writing itself, I think the first two points are enough.

The part I just highlighted states it the best. If an author claims to be writing in a certain universe then at least try to stick to the facts already set up in that universe. I doubt as many people would dislike the new books if whoever was writing them would show respect to the original author.

There are examples where someone has continued a story line after the original author has stopped writing (either from death or health reasons) and kept true to the world as set forth by the creator of that world/series. And most of the old fans from those series have little or no complaints about the new books. Perhaps the authors of the new 'Dune' books could learn from that example.

If you are going to write in someone else' creative work and claim it to be true to that world, then at least have the respect to get the facts right! Don't go changing stuff around just so that you can have more action scenes or another story.

Yeah, I realize I've rambled some and repeated the same point a few times, but maybe if it's repeated enough then someone will start listening.

http://forum.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/view ... 1826#71826" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SandRider]

I smell a ban-stick a-comin' ....

[lotek]

http://forum.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/view ... 1826#71826" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

that sounds like a funny topic!

[lotek]

And it didn't fail to deliver:

Any more? You can just read your precious books by FH and ignore these. I'd like some of these people I've seen on Amazon.com to come over here. There're only like seven of them. Rolling Eyes

LOL @seven people! That pretty much settles it. Majority rules, the new Dune books rock! Hey, we should compare the site traffic on this board with wherever it is that they post, just to show them how truly pathetic their little "OH movement" is. Anyone know how to do that?

I know your almighty idiot probably doesn't have a clue
But maybe someone should show the latest Us vs Them to that moron

[merkin muffley]

And it didn't fail to deliver:

That's an awesome thread, I can't believe I wasn't around to participate. Some excellent points were made...

She is preserving a tradition that is ancient, sacred and unknown to most. She knows that this life is only a dream, but of a greater dream beyond our imagination.

I wasn't looking for a deep lesson in Ominous and Erasmus chit chats and fits. It's not that deep of a lesson, either Brain or Kevin read Nietzsche- it gave me something to listen to on my hikes.

At first, I, too, didn't care for the new Dune books because they aren't Intelligently Abstract like FH books. But, then I had a conversion experience similar to what St. Paul had when Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascuc and fell off his horse.

Can't believe I missed that.

[Freakzilla]

And it didn't fail to deliver:

Any more? You can just read your precious books by FH and ignore these. I'd like some of these people I've seen on Amazon.com to come over here. There're only like seven of them. Rolling Eyes

LOL @seven people! That pretty much settles it. Majority rules, the new Dune books rock! Hey, we should compare the site traffic on this board with wherever it is that they post, just to show them how truly pathetic their little "OH movement" is. Anyone know how to do that?

I know your almighty idiot probably doesn't have a clue
But maybe someone should show the latest Us vs Them to that moron

Holy shit...

[lotek]

Holy shit!

Holy Shit of Dune even!!

I wasn't looking for a deep lesson in Ominous and Erasmus chit chats and fits. It's not that deep of a lesson, either Brain or Kevin read Nietzsche- it gave me something to listen to on my hikes.

He hikes? While listening to the hack's hiking rant?

Is he for real?

[Freakzilla]

I can't see DN from work, if I could I'd post our latest "Us vs. Them" stats.

[D Pope]

The thing that you, perhaps, do not understand is that the new books were based on an outline passed down from Frank Herbert to Brian Herbert.

I'm a little weak on preeq arguements;
1. Where does this fit in the list?
2. How do you reply to this? There's no reasoning with a person who could say this. I would like for someone over there to mention that it seems Frank went out of his way to HIDE this info from Brian, if it ever existed.

[Freakzilla]

The thing that you, perhaps, do not understand is that the new books were based on an outline passed down from Frank Herbert to Brian Herbert.

I'm a little weak on preeq arguements;
1. Where does this fit in the list?
2. How do you reply to this? There's no reasoning with a person who could say this. I would like for someone over there to mention that it seems Frank went out of his way to HIDE this info from Brian, if it ever existed.

The proper response to that is... No shit, Sherlock. But they can't figure out the books, what makes you think they could figure out an outline... if alleged outline existed.

[TheDukester]

I would like for someone over there to mention that it seems Frank went out of his way to HIDE this info from Brian, if it ever existed.

That's an interesting take on it. I'm ashamed to admit I've never considered it; I've been too busy making fun of the ever-changing story. I missed the forest for the trees.

[D Pope]

Has anyone done a timeline on the dark events leading to the nuDune stuff here or at T A U ? I'd like to...

edit; It might be a good way to expose the more idiotic inconsistancies in the constantly changing story.

[Eyes High]

The thing that you, perhaps, do not understand is that the new books were based on an outline passed down from Frank Herbert to Brian Herbert.

I'm a little weak on preeq arguements;
1. Where does this fit in the list?
2. How do you reply to this? There's no reasoning with a person who could say this. I would like for someone over there to mention that it seems Frank went out of his way to HIDE this info from Brian, if it ever existed.

Well it looks like StarGazer was reading your mind sort of... (she wrote something about wouldn't Frank have left a note telling his son where to find them if they existed.)

http://forum.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/view ... 3d81#71840" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[merkin muffley]

http://forum.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/view ... 3d81#71840

The thing that you, perhaps, do not understand is that the new books were based on an outline passed down from Frank Herbert to Brian Herbert.

So the claims go, yet from what I've heard over the years the number of said 'notes' have changed depending on who's telling the story as well as the location the alleged notes where found. If Frank had left them for his son, wouldn't he had left a note as to where there were so they could have been found earlier?

Which is it by the way? ...an outline or notes? Seriously, I'm not trying to be sarcastic but to me there is a big difference between an outline that MIGHT be for one book and notes about a whole world.

I still stand by the opinion that changing what has been established in the original books for the sake of change is a poor way to show respect.

The question was asked why people hate the new books and sound reasons where given. Although I don't HATE the new books, I'm just not going to waste my money on something that has proven not to live up to what it claims to be time and time again. The newer books are NOT Dune. They might be an alternet universe, in which case I wish the authours would say so, but they are not true Dune.

If I remember correctly, Brian Herbert has said that he was led to the notes when a psychic medium channeled his mother, who was able to read the notes from a piece of paper on the other side of the death barrier. I, personally, do not believe in an ethereal, supernatural plane, or "heaven/hell" per se, or "alternate universe," and I would describe this in a scientific manner, as a transmission of information through technology which only SEEMS to be magical in nature.

At any rate, I have always understood the resulting document to be a very detailed outline, so I have assumed that it is one or two hundred pages long, considering the number of words Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert have written in the Dune Universe, which I am assuming is in the hundreds of millions, if not billions, by now. I write pamphlets with about five to ten pages of material, including pictures and illustrations, and I will typically use a page and a half worth of outline. In fact, now that I think about it, the outline must be in the high hundreds, if not over one thousand pages long.

Someone has said that they do not want to discuss the quality of the writing, and I wonder why that is? I think that the quality of the writing should be a part of this debate because I believe that changes in the universe created by the original books can be justified by good storytelling. And, personally, I prefer the writing style of Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert. I think it's punchy. I like action. So many things happen off screen in Frank Herbert books that make me think, "Wait a minute! Tell me how that happened! Leto is a worm with his face stuck on it!? How did that happen!? Gurney's sister was tortured!? How exactly did that happen!? The Fremen killed billions of innocent people!? WHEN!? Show me, don't tell me!"

I know this is a controversial opinion in some circles, and I almost never hear people supporting the writing style of Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert, because it's not the cool thing to do. It's cool to think old stuff is good, and not cool to admit that you like new stuff. I think that without the cool factor, Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert's writing is superior to Frank Herbert's. People may disagree with me, but I like action, and I think if you like action, you've gotta like the new books. Feel free to disagree.

I am curious to know why you don't think the new books are consistent with the universe created in the old books, because I never notice unless someone points something out to me, and I look it up, and even then it usually means nothing to me because I don't really understand why it matters that the thing is different. I don't think it matters. Why does it matter? And what is "it?"

I am interested to hear what people think about this because I don't think that it matters. Or, at least, I'm not sure why it matters. And I don't think writing is necessarily "better" if it's more complicated.

I like to understand what I read, and I like to be titillated. Is there something wrong with that?
_________________
"Cloning will enable mankind to reach eternal life." Raël

[D Pope]

Yeah, there's something for everyone there. I picture it like one of those worksheets where one has to connect the paragraph with the OH it most offends.

[Eyes High]

Oh HECK NO! Please tell me I'm seeing things. Please! KJA a better writer? ! Oh where to begin? Okay, I know I'm preaching to the choir here but there are soooo many. ... danger! I don't even know which start w/first. How about why does it matter. If it didn't matter why would Frank had placed it in the books to begin with? Second it matters because of experience. If Paul had been off world and had all these adventures then moving to Dune wouldn't have been a big deal.

One of the (I can't think of the proper term ) intriguing aspects of Dune is how this young boy who has been so sheltered in a sense, suddenly has so much laid on his young shoulders.

Well y'all can say it better than I.

And some can even say it and remain very civil.

[DuneFishUK]

...

[Eyes High]

...

Why the sad face

[D Pope]

Golly Eyes! Is this your first idiot?

You go get em gal!

[D Pope]

And now for something completely messed up.

ElohimGhola reminds me of a LOT of pilots i've met over the years.