Why A Linguist Thinks They Suck

[Freakzilla]

Update on the "huanui deathstills":

Towards the end of the book there are two occurrences of the word huanui that are in accord with what I think should be its proper usage based on how FH used it, one in an epigraph and one in the main text. Managing to get it right, finally, just makes the earlier cases where it was obviously wrong seem all the more inexplicable and makes me wonder if the last two weren't flukes.

It was used several times in CoD, synonomously with deathstill.

[SandChigger]

Yeah, I figure it's the Fremen word for the deathstill.

[SandChigger]

Chisra Sala Muad'Dib.

"...which, in the language of the desert, means the Glorious Origin of Muad'Dib."

Like FUCK it does.

A big thanks to Brian Herbert, who in that Philadelphia Library podcast confirmed that THE FREMEN SPEAK ARABIC.

That also confirms, since the above is no form of Arabic that I can find any clue to (other than Muad'Dib (=mu'addib)), that one of them (probably KJA?) pulled it out of his ass.

[SandChigger]

I finally passed along the question of Chisra Sala Muad'Dib to someone who's more of an expert: Khalid Baheyeldin, who hosts that Arabic and Islamic themes in Frank Herbert's "Dune" page.

...one more item: in the most recent of the poor pulp sequels being put out by Frank Herbert's son & his accomplice, the following appears:

Chisra Sala Muad'Dib, which, in the language of the desert, means the Glorious Origin of Muad'Dib

I suspect that they have simply made up the words Chisra Sala, but can you think of any real Arabic that they might be based on? (Unless I am mistaken, the ordering of the three words Chisra Sala Muad'Dib is not even correct for an idaafa consisting of two nouns with one modified by an adjective. Right?)

The part of his reply pertinent to the above:

As for Chisra Sala, Origin would be 'A-S-L أصل and not Salam. Remember that Usul أصول is the plural form and Mu'adib is called Usul as well.

Chisra is not something that I can guess. Similar to Kisra كسرى, the Arabic version of Khosrow, the Sassanid Shah, and also (wrongly) a generic name for any Persian king. Herbert calls the Emperor Padishah, which is a Persian term used by Ottoman Turks as well.

If a native speaker of Arabic can't make any sense out of it either, I'd say there's a pretty good chance it's really bullshit. So much for the care and effort put into McDune by KJA and the other boob.

[Idahopotato]

I gotta tell you, I have NO IDEA what the fuck they're on about here. In either passage, actually.

They don't, either. Not a clue between them. It sure sounds cool, though.

Their conversation probably went something like this:

KJA: "Hey, Brian, I'm thinking we should use some super-cool ronin in the next book!"

BH: "Look ... a butterfly."

KJA: "Brian? Are you with me, big guy?"

BH: "Brian so sleepy."

KJA: "Sigh. Okay, I'll write the ronin, then. Oh, and could you sign my check? The banks close at 4."

I love these dialogue sessions. I have seen a few others throughout this site. Being as extensive as it is, I haven't had a chance to check out everything. Are there threads that contain more dialogue, or perhaps a compilation thread? These should be marketed as afternoon no doze for their ability to wake me up through laughter.

[SandRider]

my comment posted on the Chiggerblagh:

I've just kinda scanned over this,
reading the comments as they came in
over the RSS - this is the first time
I've read it thru in context.

Ampoliros nailed the gist of my initial
reaction, I knew somebody would have ...

"Interesting that even KJA translates the new name of Caladan to be “Glorious Origin of Muad’dib”, wouldn’t KJA’s Korba rename KAITAIN as the origin of Muad’dib?

Wouldn’t Frank’s Korba consider the real origin of MUAD’DIB to be ARRAKIS?"


So dubious, bogus window-dressing language aside,
I'm seriously fucking confused here -

@tehKJAckass : where the fuck was Paul born NOW ?

did this "novel" retcon the story AGAIN, or will there be some
tidy explantion added to the paperback ?


so ...

IF
Caladan = "Glorious Orgin of Muad'dib"
Kaitain = birthworld of Paul Atredies
AND
Paul Atredies became Muad'dib on Arrakis,
THEN
"Kevin J. Anderson" must be another psedonym for this guy:
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Chris-Chan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hunchback Jack]

SR, unfortunately with the "Irulan writing the official history" aspect of the latest books, KJA can pretty much explain away things like this pretty easily.

Caladan is the "Origin of Muad'dib" because, according to the "official" history, Paul was born there. The new name for Caladan becomes part of the manufactured legend.

Sickening, isn't it?

HBJ

[SandChigger]

You know, I'm wondering if maybe I've been overthinking this.

I was just searching around on Facebook and KJA has a friend there in Colorado Springs who's a scifi/horror writer named Christopher M. Salas.

What are the odds? Would he really stoop that low?

One of the KJASF shill baits was getting your name in one of his upcoming novels. Maybe it's payment for past services rendered?

[SandRider]

that is the funniest fucking thing I've heard in my life.

[SandChigger]

Well, there's no proof, it just may be another possibility.

I mean, the name isn't any Arabic that I can find in my dictionaries or that any Arabic speaker recognizes, which means that KJA either just created it out of thin air, or he mangled something that has some meaning to him. A friend's name would fit the latter.

(Notice that I am ruling out without question any suggestion that they "found it in Frank's notes", because that's just too stupid to contemplate without your head imploding. )

--I've posted a question about the name over on the OFFICIAL Dune page on FB. Asked them to pass it along to Kevvie.

[smugetsu]

I was just searching around on Facebook and KJA has a friend there in Colorado Springs who's a scifi/horror writer named Christopher M. Salas.

What are the odds? Would he really stoop that low?

Yes. Yes, he would. I'm convinced there's not an original thought in that balding head of his...simply rearranging a few of the letters in the name of someone he knows sounds like a great way to get around those roadblocks of creativity and intelligence. He probably came up with it, patted himself on the back for being clever, and continued "hiking."

I'm convinced now (I already was, honestly) that there are no depths he won't sink to. I suppose this might be a coincidence and nothing more, but...looks mighty suspicious, no?

[SandChigger]

Still no response on the FB official page....

(As many "fans" as there are listed, it's pretty dead over there, no?)

[Hunchback Jack]

Would KJA hide his friends name in a Fremen phrase as a cool inside joke or personal little tribute? Rather than come up with a phrase with some linguist basis?

Of course he fucking would!

HBJ

[Ampoliros]

Would KJA hide his friends name in a Fremen phrase as a cool inside joke or personal little tribute? Rather than come up with a phrase with some linguist basis?

Of course he fucking would!

HBJ

Just like I'm convinced that he brings in elements from the OH and Jacurutu discussions, as well as modeling the Rhombur/Bronso interaction on his own Step-father/Step-son relationship. Just like how every major trope in modern sci-fi magically appears in KJA's Dune, so much so that we can identify which specific movie or book he lifted it from.

Not surprised one bit. I bet Mr. Salas even has a personalized copy of "Winds" signed by KJA telling him he's part of the legend now too!



on the upside, we now know that if we offer KJA enough money or shill-reviews, we can get our own names in the Dune books! (aside from constantly being refered to as dimwitted religious fanatics that we get for free).

here's how you can mention me KJA, the twisted wreckage of the battleship Ampoliros could crash land on Salusa Secundus and Shaddam could use it as his flagship. It even still has all the crew corpsified and on board to be ghola'd into service by the Tleilaxu.

[SandChigger]

I'm thinking it's about time I fired off my annual email to Kevin.

You know, to wish him congrats on the upcoming stepson wedding in two weeks & his approaching stepgrandfatherhood in April.

[Nekhrun]

I'm thinking it's about time I fired off my annual email to Kevin.

Speaking of annual emails...

You wanted to be reminded of your buddy Oakshaman's b-day. It's on the 30th. I'll put his email address in your PM box in case you lost it.

[SandChigger]

Oakshaman? ... Oh yeah!

Now ... was he the one with the permanent woody, or the one with the tree (and his head) up his ass?


Just checked him out on the 'Zon. Fucker's been busy: up to 1,236 reviews now.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A37XGUQ1VH0XM6/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

STILL exquisitely tightly packed full of shit, it appears. I wonder if Linda will forgive me if I throw a few bananas his way again...?!

[Hunchback Jack]

here's how you can mention me KJA, the twisted wreckage of the battleship Ampoliros could crash land on Salusa Secundus ...

Or, indeed, on Chapter House.

HBJ

[Freakzilla]

here's how you can mention me KJA, the twisted wreckage of the battleship Ampoliros could crash land on Salusa Secundus ...

Or, indeed, on Chapter House.

HBJ

Maybe it's hidden underneath Battleship Rock on Dune?

[insidiom]

I was just searching around on Facebook and KJA has a friend there in Colorado Springs who's a scifi/horror writer named Christopher M. Salas.

What are the odds? Would he really stoop that low?

it depends on how many reviews mr salas wrote...

[SandChigger]

ZING!?!

I have no evidence that Salas is a member of KJASF. I don't even know how close he and KJA are in real life, if at all. But it's not unknown for authors to work the names of their friends into their works. (To tuckerize, I guess they call it.) Frank Herbert himself did it (Norma Cenva is evidently Norma Vance, Jack Vance's wife), so now that KJA thinks he owns Dune, maybe he's also thinking, Why shouldn't I do it, too?

[SandChigger]

REASON #5: EARLY FAILURE TO FULLY COMPREHEND THAT NAMES CHANGE WITH THE REST OF LANGUAGE

I think this "Chisra Sala Muad'Dib" (Chris-uh Salas Maia'Frend?) shtick about renaming Caladan—in addition to probably being another cheap attempt to one-up FH by renaming a planet (as FH had Giedi Prime renamed to Gammu)—could represent KJA finally getting the message that names, while somewhat more resistant, also change with time.

The use of Balut that I mentioned in the BoBo interview thread illustrates what I mean by "early failure" to understand this point: in the Legends books virtually ALL of the well-known Duniverse planets appear under the same names as they are known later ... 10,000-plus years later. FH showed us that even the names of major planets like Arrakis and Caladan would change in just a couple of millennia; there's no way such names would have remained unchanged after ten.