Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:So no, probably we shouldn't be reading too much into the roses.
And now, back to your scheduled programming...
Hmm, I'm gong to go out on a limb here and read too much into the roses...
Black roses (roses of black color) do not exist in nature as such, but nevertheless have been created in laboratories. Botinists have manipulated the rose's genes through preliminary cross breeding, creating the hybrid Black Rose. They are often featured in fiction with many different meanings such as the "black magic", "barkarole", "black beauty" and "baccara" and death varieties of roses. The flowers commonly called black roses are actually a very dark red color.
Language of flowers
In the 18th century, the language of flowers became popular. In this code, the black rose is a symbol of death, hatred, revenge, sorrow or mourning. It can also be used when conveying a farewell. The black rose's quality of being a rare flower renders it an apt symbol of profound love, or other such things of a rare nature.
It also is the symbol of rebirth especially a rebirth of a beauty. A rebirth of the mind.
And from http://landscaping.about.com/cs/rosebushes/a/rose_colors.htm
What about black roses? Do they exist and, if so, what is the meaning? While no jet-black rose exists, there are some of such a deep red as to suggest black. E.g., Rosa 'Black Magic.' Alternatively, some florists dry fresh roses and dye them black. And the meaning? There is some disagreement on this point. Many say black represents death and can thus be used as a symbol to express vengeance towards a foe. But others interpret that more liberally, suggesting as a meaning for black roses the death of old habits, thus signalling rebirth.
It seems to me that these themes smack of Chapterhouse. I can't rule out that the roses are indeed significant here..."Botinists have manipulated the rose's genes through preliminary cross breeding, creating the hybrid Black Rose."
It's typical that products of the Bene Teilax , such as D&M, still have a respect for mucking about with genetics and such."the black rose is a symbol of death, hatred, revenge, sorrow or mourning. It can also be used when conveying a farewell. The black rose's quality of being a rare flower renders it an apt symbol of profound love, or other such things of a rare nature. It also is the symbol of rebirth especially a rebirth of a beauty. A rebirth of the mind."
Oh man, lots to interpret here:- Revenge or "a symbol to express vengeance towards a foe":
This theme reminds me of the Honored Matres, whom we all know were in the process of retreating thoughout Heretics and Chapterhouse. They were running from the "enemy with many faces" and had returned to the old empire to conquer those worlds by both military and economic means (the banks on Gammu, etc), for the sole purpose of eventually becoming strong enough to exact revenge on their enemy. So, if Marty and Daniel (particularly Daniel) tend to black roses, have they been marked for revenge? I think it's safe to assume they have many faces.
Another note on revenge: I think it was Odrade that said "Revenge is for children and the emotionally retarded."- Mourning:
Not directly related to D&M but is certainly a theme at the end of Chapterhouse, considering that Odrade dies, which helps to set in motion the escape of Duncan & company (part of her plan).- Conveying a farewell:
There are two farewells at the end of Chapterhouse. The obvious one being the escape of the no-ship, and the other one being Daniel's attitude towards that escape: "They're where we can't touch them now," "Gholas. He's welcome to them." Daniel's own farewell to Duncan?- A Profound Love:
It doesn't get much more profound than Duncan's bond with Murbella. What that has to do with D&M and their rose garden, I'm not so sure... Or perhaps did Daniel let Duncan escape because of a profound love for him? Hmm, that's a stretch, but I'm just putting it out there... Love in general was a major theme throughout Heretics and Chapterhouse. Odrade and Taraza wielded love as a taboo tool, with Jessica as their inspiration. - A Rebirth of the Mind:
This is pretty broad; Someone's mind is always being reborn in one way or another in Dune. Be it Duncan's strange awareness of D&M and their net (or simply his decision to leave), Teg's transformation into a superfast no-ship detector, D&M's evolution into omnipotent beings, the RM Agony, the list goes on... - The Death of old Habits, Thus Signalling Rebirth:
This is so Dune. To start, Odrade knew that if current BG habits continued, her prophetic axe-wielder/tightrope/chasm dream would come true in the form of the BG being crushed by the HM's. It was often repeated that Odrade's own prescience was limited to foreseeing the survival of the sisterhood. Farad'n Corrino (hailing fom Salusa Secundus, where we've seen black roses before) was re-named Harq Al-Ada by Leto II, which I believe is Chakobsa for "The breaking of the habit."
So, was Frank fully aware of at least some of these themes when he made the decision to include black roses in D&M's garden? I'm thinking he more than likely did.
EDIT: More on the death of old habits and rebirth: The very act of Scattering, especially in the spirit that Duncan & company did it, is a kind of rebirth. Sheeana envisioned a start on a new world or a new empire, a subject which will certainly need its own topic...
EDIT: More on love: A Bene Gesserit rule from heretics: "Tolerate Love, but guard against it." And later: "A safety net to ensure continuation of the species."