Spicelon II


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Spicelon
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Spicelon II

Post by Spicelon »

Forgive me for I have sinned. My original intro thread didn't mention that I also post (sparingly) at Haven and (less sparingly) at A(U) as Star Dust. I don't think that that's a bad thing, i.e. that I was an asshole in either place. I was an asshole at Haven once, when CountZero was being particularly sensitive to criticism, but I think that's the worst of it.
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Freakzilla
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Post by Freakzilla »

Thanks for the copy of Dune with chapter and line numbers!
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Post by Spicelon »

Freakzilla wrote:Thanks for the copy of Dune with chapter and line numbers!
I'm telling you, that's the key to the Annotated Dune Project (ADP). If we get all the texts like that, we can build quite the reference database. I have lots of ideas about this, btw. ;)
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Post by orald »

That's OK, I barely remember any of those names, and I get confused between most of you. :P

Weren't you on my MSN contacts for a while? Or was it some other one that I don't know as well?
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

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Post by Spicelon »

orald wrote:That's OK, I barely remember any of those names, and I get confused between most of you. :P

Weren't you on my MSN contacts for a while? Or was it some other one that I don't know as well?
Ya, but I don't even know my MSN login anymore.
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Post by orald »

Ah, good, so I wouldn't have to explain why you're off my list then... :P
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
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Post by Omphalos »

Spicelon wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Thanks for the copy of Dune with chapter and line numbers!
I'm telling you, that's the key to the Annotated Dune Project (ADP). If we get all the texts like that, we can build quite the reference database. I have lots of ideas about this, btw. ;)
That is exactly what I thought when I saw it. That it would be an awesome way to reference things in that project.
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Post by SandChigger »

One suggestion:

What you're calling "line numbers" are actually paragraph numbers, no? (In a text file each "line" actually continues until the next line break/carriage return...usually at the end of a paragraph.)

How about referring to the sentences in each "line" using a small roman letter, when(ever) more precision is wanted/needed?

So D24:4b would refer to Dawn was spreading over the shattered outline of cliffs across the basin, touching everything with pink. (Dune, chapter 24, line/paragraph 4, second sentence.)
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Post by Omphalos »

Im not sure we should require the sentence to be identified. Isnt "chapter and verse" enough (and yes, Captain Nomenclature, I really mean "page and clause," but "chapter and verse" rolls off the tongue. :wink:
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Post by SandChigger »

I wasn't suggesting it be required, only that it be out there as an option; thus "when(ever) more precision is wanted/needed". ;)

I'm just thinking of the case where you have a long paragraph and only one or two sentences is relevant and needs to be quoted. Sure, "chapter and verse" is enough to allow someone to find them. If it's not worth the effort, it's not worth getting bothered over.

Maybe for longish paragraphs just add T/M/B for Top / Middle / Bottom?

Just suggestions. :)
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Post by Spicelon »

Great suggestion Chig. It can be done. I write a shit ton of macros in Excel, so I taught myself how to do the same in Word. Numbering sentences in paragraphs is totally doable. Keep in mind, though, that such a document actually starts to become unreadable, what with numbers everywhere. Still great to have as a reference.

A couple of key things to keep in mind: before actually implementing such a beast, it's gonna take lots and lots of proofreading and QA/QC. Once it's set and people start marking their own "favorite paragraphs" etc., it fucks everyone up if you change the paragraph numbers, so that's gotta be right as rain from the get go. Also with my Word docs, I still need to go through and make some format changes, like italicising words that Frank has italicized, etc. I'm a stickler for details, ;)

Anyway, I will be on vaca all next week, but I totally intend to keep going with this, at least for my own personal use. I will let it known when Messiah is done
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Post by orald »

Spicelon wrote:Keep in mind, though, that such a document actually starts to become unreadable, what with numbers everywhere.
I'm not sure I'm getting this straight, but wouldn't that be like the Bible?
That's filled with chapter and verse numbers as well.
And if you take a Jewish version of the books(or the Talmud), they're filled with tons of annotations and explenations all around the text, and it's very readable.

Image
this is a bad quality picture, but it'll serve.
the long, bigger text in the middle is actually all the original text, and everything around it is annotations.
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Post by SandChigger »

FURTHER CLARIFICATION!

I wasn't actually suggesting those sentence-identifying/numbering letters be inserted into the text! People can count them/do in their heads, no?


(I always thought Talmud looked really neat. Swiping images from Wikipedia, eh? ;) )
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Post by Freakzilla »

Aren't wiki images free use?
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Post by SandChigger »

Freakzilla wrote:Aren't wiki images free use?
Yep. It was a joke, not a real accusation!
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Post by orald »

IDK about neat, I'd say it's pretty cluttered because of all those annotations(and those are just some main ones, not the seconday or obscure), but considering the amount of said annotations I think they've done a pretty good job of arranging it.

So you could swipe the Talmud and Torah Books design.
After all, Dune IS a holy book. :D
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Post by SandChigger »

Neat as in NEATO COOL! ;)


(I've collected a few volumes of the Steinsaltz. Interesting to look through. I remember how freaked out I was seeing the word ampura (I think that was it) "marketplace" in one of the commentaries. It had never occurred to me before that the writers would have used loanwords, especially from Greek. :shock: It's from emporion "emporium".)
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Post by orald »

Uh, didn't you know it's written at least half in Arameic(sp?)?
There're specific annotations to translate just that.

Lots of words today that are Arameic or Greek in origin.
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Post by SandChigger »

Actually, Hebrew wasn't really being spoken that much by that time; everyone spoke Aramaic. I simply had this image in my head that they (the rabbis writing the Talmud) would have been more purist in their language, using only Aramaic or Hebrew.

I was wrong. :)
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Post by orald »

SandChigger wrote:Actually, Hebrew wasn't really being spoken that much by that time; everyone spoke Aramaic.
Yea, I know.

I don't think Hebrew was considered a holy language back then, it gained this status by being practically dead for millenia(much like Jesus it seems, only he had to be dead for a second to get that :lol: ).

You should also remember that half(actually, more than half I think, as the center wasn't Israel for quite a long time) the guys who discussed things there were from the persian empire and the likes(Babel).
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
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