The notes... (yeah, right)


Moderators: Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Omphalos

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Post by SandChigger »

Don't know about that ... but I did witness Mrs Southworth flay several people alive with just a glance. :shock:


(Wait a minute ... she was my English teacher... :?: :?: :?: )
User avatar
chanilover
Posts: 1644
Joined: 18 Feb 2008 08:29

Post by chanilover »

I cross the 7 as well, although most people in the UK don't. A lot of people in Europe cross the 7, as their 4 looks a bit like a 7.

So what's going on here? Frank Herbert signs a book in 1974 without a line through the 7, yet the disks for the notes and outline have a line through the 7 Did he change the way he wrote 7 in later life, or am I missing something and it's common knowledge that Frank Herbert didn't write on the covers of the disks?
"You and your buddies and that b*tch Mandy are nothing but a gang of lying, socially maladjusted losers." - St Hypatia of Arrakeen.
Image
Image
User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Post by SandRider »

that's what I'm trying to determine, if only for myself.

I'm of the opinion now that the disk labels are both in Frank's hand,
which calls into question Brian's statement that they were labelled
by "two people" (which two ?)
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
User avatar
GamePlayer
70mm God
Posts: 2993
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 11:26
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Post by GamePlayer »

The notes have been and always will be, an invented grab for legitimacy. Even if they did exist and had some kind of pertinent information, they might lead to an additional book; perhaps two at most.

Besides KJA has said now, over and over like an abandoned car alarm, how his head is just filled with ideas and they just don't stop. So it's clear he's long ago become the sole "creative" (*chortle*) force in the Prequels.

Whether the notes actually exist or not and what they contain has really long since passed beyond any relevance, except as trivia for real Dune fans who would like to see them published.
"They can chew you up, but they gotta spit you out."
User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Post by SandRider »

the issue I'm focusing on right now is not about the notes, or the contents
of the disks - just the Truth of who's hand is on the labels ...

If it is decided that the disks are in fact in Frank's hand, that is atleast
an indication that some form of notes did exist, regardless of how they
were used by The Boys.

If it is decided that the disk labels are not in Frank's hand, that adds to
the argument that the notes (specifically for Dune7) did not exist and the
whole thing is a hoax created and promoted by the HLP.
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Post by Freakzilla »

Bijaz wrote:I heard that crossing the seven was common in the military. Freak?
No, they don't really emphasize written communication, it's not secure.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Post by SandChigger »

(Did someone just "chortle" above? :shock: )

Ahem...

One thing that keeps bothering me is how no one else seems to have known about the safe deposit boxes, not Brian (who was supposedly so buddy-buddy with dear ole dad at the end) or Theresa, the new wife. Frank obviously wasn't making anything like regular trips to the bank/S&L to update the contents, or the family around weren't paying attention or didn't bother to find out where he was going. (I wonder if they're not something he did on the spur of the moment one day and maybe forgot about even himself, when his health started failing.)

There's also the question of why it took so long for the S&L to contact the estate lawyers. Establishments like that generally don't lend out safety deposit boxes (two there were, IIRC) gratis. Did FH pay ahead for over a decade? Did they let it slide for a decade because he was a famous writer? But if they knew who he was, why didn't they hear that he had died? Paperwork oversight?

Lots of questions, probably never to be answered. :roll:
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
User avatar
Seraphan
Posts: 749
Joined: 03 Jul 2008 08:36
Location: Right Behind You!

Post by Seraphan »

Those two have laid out too many contradictory stories about the notes, the interview in the audiobook compared to the other stuff they said about it being thousand and thousand of pages, *pfff* yeah right. But doesnt it prove how much of a shitty writter Kevin "Take a Hike" Anderson is that his own imcompetence provides proof that he is not following anything done by Frank?
Image
"The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand." - Frank Herbert
“This tutoring is dialectical. Literature makes us better noticers of life; we get to practice on life itself; which in turn makes us better readers of detail in literature; which in turn makes us better readers of life. And so on and on.” - James Wood
User avatar
Omphalos
Inglorious Bastard
Posts: 6677
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 11:07
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California
Contact:

Post by Omphalos »

SandChigger wrote:(Did someone just "chortle" above? :shock: )

Ahem...

One thing that keeps bothering me is how no one else seems to have known about the safe deposit boxes, not Brian (who was supposedly so buddy-buddy with dear ole dad at the end) or Theresa, the new wife. Frank obviously wasn't making anything like regular trips to the bank/S&L to update the contents, or the family around weren't paying attention or didn't bother to find out where he was going. (I wonder if they're not something he did on the spur of the moment one day and maybe forgot about even himself, when his health started failing.)

There's also the question of why it took so long for the S&L to contact the estate lawyers. Establishments like that generally don't lend out safety deposit boxes (two there were, IIRC) gratis. Did FH pay ahead for over a decade? Did they let it slide for a decade because he was a famous writer? But if they knew who he was, why didn't they hear that he had died? Paperwork oversight?

Lots of questions, probably never to be answered. :roll:
Im not defending this bullshit "notes" story at all. Personally I think that its either a total fabrication, or highly exaggurated crappola, but the safety deposit box element is not so hard to believe. Ive done a ton of wills & trusts and probate work in the past. This kind of thing happens frequently with the wealthy. Safety deposit boxes can be bought for long periods of time with one payment, and often are. Some banks let people essentially lease them forever, only checking for evidence of death after the lease term has expired. In a large bank with a large vault it could be fifty years before records are checked. Hell, I used to be a platform teller in a community bank, and while I was there a few boxes were opened forcibly decades after the renter died.

It also could have been that the bank did not even contact the family. They had hired an estate lawyer, and one of his jobs was probably to go through FH's documents looking for evidence of assets that the family did not know about. Why do I not have a hard time guessing that this is exactly what happened? Anyway, the lawyer might have found the contract in FH's papers, and contacted the bank with a death certificate and a copy of the will. That is all they would need to crack the box.

Look over on T(A)U. The name of hte estate lawyer is there. I learned it once and posted it for anyone to see. I doubt that he woudl say anything, but they have given us his name, which tends to lend creedence to the story at least that a box existed, IMHO.
Image

The New & Improved Book Review Blog

Goodnight Golden Path!
User avatar
Lisan Al-Gaib
Posts: 418
Joined: 11 Feb 2008 15:34
Location: In the Heart of My Religion.

Post by Lisan Al-Gaib »

SandChigger wrote:...or Theresa, the new wife.
Nice catch, Chig.

For me, that could be the key about all this story of secret notes. That woman married Frank on his last days of life, and how she could have never known about the Dune 7 outline and safety deposit boxes?

"My lovely Theresa, I'm going to my secret safety deposit box to save there the mysterious Dune 7 outline, do you want me to buy something from the market?

Oh? what? Do wherever you want, but I'm not going to make your dinner, do you understand? humm...crazy science fiction writers...always suffering from paranoia... "
Last edited by Lisan Al-Gaib on 01 Dec 2008 14:13, edited 1 time in total.
The singular multiplicity of this universe draws my deepest attention. It is a thing of ultimate beauty.

-- The Stolen Journals

User avatar
GamePlayer
70mm God
Posts: 2993
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 11:26
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Post by GamePlayer »

SandRider wrote:the issue I'm focusing on right now is not about the notes, or the contents
of the disks - just the Truth of who's hand is on the labels ...

If it is decided that the disks are in fact in Frank's hand, that is atleast
an indication that some form of notes did exist, regardless of how they
were used by The Boys.

If it is decided that the disk labels are not in Frank's hand, that adds to
the argument that the notes (specifically for Dune7) did not exist and the
whole thing is a hoax created and promoted by the HLP.
I realize that, but I don't see how any of this can reach any kind of definitive conclusion. We've had this topic of discussion go round before and no one was able to say anything worthwhile or substantial about the handwriting or signatures. Unless someone is conducting an official investigation, this thread is basically masturbation.

So what if the notes did or did not exist? At this point its all irrelevant. The damage has been done; the HLP has published, what is it now, 10 lousy books? What difference does it make now if Frank's handwriting is on a couple of floppies? Just so you can say KJA is a hack and a liar? That's already been established a thousand times over and it doesn't look like any critic is waiting for an official seal of approval to say so :)
"They can chew you up, but they gotta spit you out."
Frybread
Posts: 268
Joined: 16 Aug 2008 11:40
Location: Wyoming, USA

Post by Frybread »

Seraphan wrote:Those two have laid out too many contradictory stories about the notes, the interview in the audiobook compared to the other stuff they said about it being thousand and thousand of pages, *pfff* yeah right. But doesnt it prove how much of a shitty writter Kevin "Take a Hike" Anderson is that his own imcompetence provides proof that he is not following anything done by Frank?
I agree. The notes story that the Hacks Twain have told has differed significantly in different interviews, which leads me to believe that it's a lie to legitimize their boring and worthless "Dune" books.

Edited to add that Kevin's discarding of FH's themes is not only due to his incompetence, but his and his bitch's arrogance. I'm sure he -- and Brian -- thinks he has better ideas and can tell a better story than Frank.
User avatar
Ampoliros
Posts: 2518
Joined: 14 Mar 2008 11:22
Location: I think we took a wrong turn...

Post by Ampoliros »

Maybe we're going the wrong way about this: What if the "notes" exist, and all they say is
"Brian, if you want to continue writing in the Dune Universe, hire the absolutely most craptastic writer you can find, and totally ignore, change and mutate as much as you can.
Love, Dad.

p.s. my reason for asking you to do this is so that no one will be able to mistake the difference between my legacy and your lame attempts to cash in on it even more.
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Post by SandRider »

GP wrote:I don't see how any of this can reach any kind of definitive conclusion.
probably not in my lifetime, of which there ain't much more, and maybe
not in yours. But if Frank Hebert's Dune is in fact the Masterpiece
of American Literature I've claimed it to be, then it will not end here.

Future historians will scour over the evidence, eventually the papers
Frank left behind will be revealed. I see this as groundwork only.
Putting the current evidence in the HLP's face and their on-the-record
responses have already revealed important clues to the Truth.

And I understand this has been discussed before - as I said above, I'm
trying to settle this in my own mind only, using the evidence and thoughts
others have provided here.
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
Frybread
Posts: 268
Joined: 16 Aug 2008 11:40
Location: Wyoming, USA

Post by Frybread »

Ampoliros wrote:Maybe we're going the wrong way about this: What if the "notes" exist, and all they say is
"Brian, if you want to continue writing in the Dune Universe, hire the absolutely most craptastic writer you can find, and totally ignore, change and mutate as much as you can.
Love, Dad.

p.s. my reason for asking you to do this is so that no one will be able to mistake the difference between my legacy and your lame attempts to cash in on it even more.
p.p.s. I would suggest hiring that sleazy, fat, balding kid who is really good at writing shallow, space opera books quickly.
User avatar
Seraphan
Posts: 749
Joined: 03 Jul 2008 08:36
Location: Right Behind You!

Post by Seraphan »

thinks he has better ideas and can tell a better story than Frank.
That's another thing about that retard that pisses the royal fuckness out of me. He's too stupid to understand Mary Shelly's Frankenstein that he thinks it's just a pretty story.
Image
"The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand." - Frank Herbert
“This tutoring is dialectical. Literature makes us better noticers of life; we get to practice on life itself; which in turn makes us better readers of detail in literature; which in turn makes us better readers of life. And so on and on.” - James Wood
User avatar
GamePlayer
70mm God
Posts: 2993
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 11:26
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Post by GamePlayer »

SandRider wrote:
GP wrote:I don't see how any of this can reach any kind of definitive conclusion.
probably not in my lifetime, of which there ain't much more, and maybe
not in yours. But if Frank Hebert's Dune is in fact the Masterpiece
of American Literature I've claimed it to be, then it will not end here.

Future historians will scour over the evidence, eventually the papers
Frank left behind will be revealed. I see this as groundwork only.
Putting the current evidence in the HLP's face and their on-the-record
responses have already revealed important clues to the Truth.

And I understand this has been discussed before - as I said above, I'm
trying to settle this in my own mind only, using the evidence and thoughts
others have provided here.
I suppose. But this is just a discussion board. It's not like any of us are uni profs engaged in research for an upcoming series on the works of literature great Frank Herbert :)
"They can chew you up, but they gotta spit you out."
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Post by SandChigger »

Afterthought: SandRider, have you considered that Brian et al. may be truly contemptible and destroy anything that doesn't corroborate their version of reality?
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
User avatar
Omphalos
Inglorious Bastard
Posts: 6677
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 11:07
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California
Contact:

Post by Omphalos »

SandChigger wrote:Afterthought: SandRider, have you considered that Brian et al. may be truly contemptible and destroy anything that doesn't corroborate their version of reality?
Chig: I tried to answer this but instead of hitting "quote" I hit "edit." I'm really sorry for screwing up your post. I see that I deleted a lot of what you said. My answer was this:

I certainly have. I used to rail about them not putting that stuff in the FH archives mainly because I do not trust them at all.
Image

The New & Improved Book Review Blog

Goodnight Golden Path!
User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Post by SandRider »

GP wrote:But this is just a discussion board. It's not like any of us are uni profs engaged in research for an upcoming series on the works of literature great Frank Herbert
don't underestimate the importance of what is going on here. the bare bones
and quite a few specifics of the story are available here. historians are just
now starting to cope with the information presented on the interenet. It could
well be that this forum and those like it will provide valuable data to the
future historians. And you never know who's lurking here ....
Chig wrote:have you considered that Brian et al. may be truly contemptible and destroy anything that doesn't corroborate their version of reality?
absolutely. if I were on their side, I would have already advised that. and it's
likely that if it were up to Keith, they would already be destroyed. Perhaps
Brian and the other actual family members of the HLP value Frank's papers
enough to prevent their wanton destruction. And as it was suggested, we may
see the notes/papers/etc in a published form after the current cash cow has been
milked dry.
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
User avatar
Rakis
Posts: 1583
Joined: 16 Feb 2008 00:00

Post by Rakis »

Ampoliros wrote:Maybe we're going the wrong way about this: What if the "notes" exist, and all they say is
"Brian, if you want to continue writing in the Dune Universe, hire the absolutely most craptastic writer you can find, and totally ignore, change and mutate as much as you can.
Love, Dad.

p.s. my reason for asking you to do this is so that no one will be able to mistake the difference between my legacy and your lame attempts to cash in on it even more.
Makes sense... :)
Image
User avatar
Seraphan
Posts: 749
Joined: 03 Jul 2008 08:36
Location: Right Behind You!

Post by Seraphan »

SandRider wrote:absolutely. if I were on their side, I would have already advised that. and it's
likely that if it were up to Keith, they would already be destroyed. Perhaps
Brian and the other actual family members of the HLP value Frank's papers
enough to prevent their wanton destruction. And as it was suggested, we may
see the notes/papers/etc in a published form after the current cash cow has been
milked dry.
I certainly hope not, they could at least keep them for the sake of other family members. But to steep so low as to destroy another author's notes and creations for the sake of his own wallet and ego seems to be exactly the kind of thing Kevin "Take a Hike" Anderson would do.
The guy really is the fucking devil :evil:
Image
"The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand." - Frank Herbert
“This tutoring is dialectical. Literature makes us better noticers of life; we get to practice on life itself; which in turn makes us better readers of detail in literature; which in turn makes us better readers of life. And so on and on.” - James Wood
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Post by SandChigger »

AAAAAgh! Censorship! :shock:



:lol:

(Fook me if I remember what I wrote. Oh well, lost like tears in the rain.... :P )
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
Serkanner
Administrator
Posts: 2974
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

Post by Serkanner »

SandChigger wrote:A lost like tears in the rain.... :P )
Bladerunner
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Post by SandChigger »

;)

Just watched it again weekend before last. Love it. (Have no idea how many times I've seen it.)
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
Post Reply