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    landsraad structure

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      The Great Houses which comprise the governing body of the Empire

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    Postby SandRider » 09 Nov 2008 18:14

    Here's an example of the whole problem in a nutshell, BobaGodot. This is a thread for the discussion of the "Landsraad & Emperor", but again, the discussion is about how Kevin's bullshit (doesn't) fit(s) into the original universe. You completely lost me with this:
    up there somewhere, BobaGodot wrote:Interestingly, BH and KJA contributed, and the backstory is completely different in the book than it is in the Prequel novels, despite the sourcebook being the first appearance of House Vernius and that itinerant House that the Guild employs.

    This is all gibberish to me, because I've not read anything other than Dune. And the fact that I have to then clarify and say "The Dune of Frank Herbert" makes me cranky. This is also why I don't participate in the "Dune Discussions", but spend my time ridiculing the HLP and chatting up cute English lads and insane Eastern European women while waiting for Merritt to wake up and do something foolish.
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    Postby SandChigger » 09 Nov 2008 18:40

    Let's return to the question of the Sysselraads. They're described (in the one place in the books where the word appears) as "regional". Since the Great Houses are already represented in the Landsraad, why would the Sysselraads need to be represented there as well? The Imperium is no democracy, remember.
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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Nov 2008 18:40

    SandRider wrote:... spend my time ridiculing the HLP and chatting up cute English lads and insane Eastern European women while waiting for Merritt to wake up and do something foolish.

    Definitely a full day! :)
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    Postby EsperandoAGodot » 09 Nov 2008 18:47

    SandRider wrote:Here's an example of the whole problem in a nutshell, BobaGodot. This is a thread for the discussion of the "Landsraad & Emperor", but again, the discussion is about how Kevin's bullshit (doesn't) fit(s) into the original universe. You completely lost me with this:
    up there somewhere, BobaGodot wrote:Interestingly, BH and KJA contributed, and the backstory is completely different in the book than it is in the Prequel novels, despite the sourcebook being the first appearance of House Vernius and that itinerant House that the Guild employs.

    This is all gibberish to me, because I've not read anything other than Dune. And the fact that I have to then clarify and say "The Dune of Frank Herbert" makes me cranky. This is also why I don't participate in the "Dune Discussions", but spend my time ridiculing the HLP and chatting up cute English lads and insane Eastern European women while waiting for Merritt to wake up and do something foolish.

    It's only a problem if you make it a problem. I was making reference to the d20 RP, and decided I'd make an offhand mention of how the d20 contains further evidence that BH and KJA suck at their "jobs." This became a quick disagreement between me and another poster about how much BH and KJA actually contributed to the roleplaying material. Slightly tangential, slightly off topic. Perhaps if we hadn't been having that argument earlier today, you and I, then this wouldn't seem like such a problem to you.

    I only mentioned the d20 sourcebook because it includes an existing interpretation of the Sysselraad - something we know nothing about, really - from a licensed product.
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    Postby SandChigger » 09 Nov 2008 19:01

    The implication there being that because it was licensed there just may be extra information from Frank's Holy Notes included by Kevin and the other guy?

    Dubious.
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby DuneFishUK » 09 Nov 2008 19:47

    SandChigger wrote: The Imperium is no democracy, remember.


    Yes, but the Emperor cannot be expected dictate every micro-detail. It must be left to men of noble breeding and exceptional character to manage the day to day politics. And in order to obtain consensus there must be open discussion between equals. Or is my prequel exposure making me think too democratically. Is the Imperium managed solely in smoky backrooms with backhanders, kick-backs and promises of allegiance?
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    Postby SandRider » 09 Nov 2008 19:51

    just trying to indoctrinate you into the hardcore OH belief system, so you
    don't seem confused all the time when people attack your positions or,
    eventually, call you a fucktard. just clarifing my position that as soon as
    Kevin's Bullshit is mentioned, in any form or context, I'm going to pull
    out a crysknife and try to stick it in your eye. just pointing out that any
    discussion of noDune eventually does damage to the understanding of
    Frank Herbert's Dune, because the concepts concocted while Kevin's
    out hiking will seep into your brain until you can't tell the difference, and
    post something stupid. just trying to save your immortal soul.
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    Postby SandChigger » 09 Nov 2008 20:00

    DuneFishUK wrote:Yes, but the Emperor cannot be expected dictate every micro-detail.

    Never said he did.

    That's why planets and systems are given as fiefs to the Great Houses: they do the "micro-managing". So the results differ depending on the character of each House. I would imagine the people of Caladan had a much better time of it than those on Giedi Prime.

    Is the Imperium managed solely in smoky backrooms with backhanders, kick-backs and promises of allegiance?

    Isn't that the picture you get?

    Whatever the nature of its origins those two thousand or more years before the Jihad (whether from some democratic alliance between worlds to ensure safe commerce and travel and to prevent mutual aggression between members or from an alliance of the downtrodden against a central Imperial authority), it's probable that its character changed over time as the overall social structure of the Imperium changed to a more rigid, feudal one under the Corrinos.
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby EsperandoAGodot » 09 Nov 2008 20:26

    SandChigger wrote:The implication there being that because it was licensed there just may be extra information from Frank's Holy Notes included by Kevin and the other guy?

    Dubious.

    I doubt Frank bothered taking notes about the Sysselraad.

    There was no information on it before, and then an official Dune product - whatever that might mean to you - offered a possible explanation. It's not automatically stupid just because Frank didn't write it, especially because BH and KJA also didn't. It may not be canon, but since canon is quiet on this particular issue, I thought pointing out that the d20 sourcebook proferred an explanation might be of interest.

    Jesus Christ, people.
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    Postby SandRider » 09 Nov 2008 22:08

    I'm telling you, you're about three posts away from being
    called a fucktard. fair warning ....
    It's not automatically stupid just because Frank didn't write it
    Possibly true, but it is irrelevant. (to me)
    Last edited by SandRider on 09 Nov 2008 23:06, edited 1 time in total.
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    Postby SandChigger » 09 Nov 2008 22:59

    And some other game made "House Ordos" secret thinking-machine users. (Or was that just in Nebby's fanfic.)

    Jesus NavaChrist, dude.
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby EsperandoAGodot » 09 Nov 2008 23:18

    It was an interesting citation, is all, an interpretation of the text that happened to agree with an interpretation brought up by a poster. That's all.
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