Frank Herbert and McNelly First Butlerian Jihad Chapter

[Lisan Al-Gaib]

Today morning I was reading the Dune Encyclopedia wiki article and I came across with this paragraph:

"In 1999, Dr. McNelly stated that he had proposed to Frank Herbert that they collaborate on a Dune prequel novel, expanding upon the Butlerian Jihad story presented in The Dune Encyclopedia. He noted, "FH and I had discussed writing it together and he agreed with my general plot outline, completed first chapter, and so on but his untimely death prevented us from continuing." "

taked from:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan. ... put=gplain

And also reading the goggle group post of McNellis above, he confirmed that "the story of the aborted female fetus in the DE which brought about
the Butlerian Jihad, that creation was entirely my own,..."

So we could say that Bh&KJA stoled the idea for their Butlerian Jihad and Serena Butler's plot from McNellis, and not from FH notes??

This is a great discovery for me, because McNellis claimed that all the Butlerian Jihad origin and story from the DE came from his mind with the approval of FH. He already confirmed that he had a first draft of a first chapter of the "Prequel to Dune: Butlerian Jihad" wrote with the FH contribution.

Could some1 stole that chapter from the McNellis family?
Or we could believe that BH&KJA have this chapter too?

And, for ending: "I am not sure that FH meant any paticular "Butler." "
How can they say their novels is based on FH notes???

For me, all this history lay itself in a mistery...

[A Thing of Eternity]

Today morning I was reading the Dune Encyclopedia wiki article and I came across with this paragraph:

"In 1999, Dr. McNelly stated that he had proposed to Frank Herbert that they collaborate on a Dune prequel novel, expanding upon the Butlerian Jihad story presented in The Dune Encyclopedia. He noted, "FH and I had discussed writing it together and he agreed with my general plot outline, completed first chapter, and so on but his untimely death prevented us from continuing." "

taked from:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan. ... put=gplain

And also reading the goggle group post of McNellis above, he confirmed that "the story of the aborted female fetus in the DE which brought about
the Butlerian Jihad, that creation was entirely my own,..."

So we could say that Bh&KJA stoled the idea for their Butlerian Jihad and Serena Butler's plot from McNellis, and not from FH notes??

This is a great discovery for me, because McNellis claimed that all the Butlerian Jihad origin and story from the DE came from his mind with the approval of FH. He already confirmed that he had a first draft of a first chapter of the "Prequel to Dune: Butlerian Jihad" wrote with the FH contribution.

Could some1 stole that chapter from the McNellis family?
Or we could believe that BH&KJA have this chapter too?

And, for ending: "I am not sure that FH meant any paticular "Butler." "
How can they say their novels is based on FH notes???

For me, all this history lay itself in a mistery...

I always thought it was laughable that they went out of their way to explain that some of their writing contradicts the DE because "none" of it was based on the DE, which is just fan-fic non-canon. Complete BS; they obviously took more inspiration from the DE than from the originals.

They are so full of shit it hurts to listen to sometimes.

[SandChigger]

If only he were still around and we could ask him about the Norma Cenva parts of the DE.

(Then again, do we really need to ask?)

[Spicelon]

Today morning I was reading the Dune Encyclopedia wiki article and I came across with this paragraph:

"In 1999, Dr. McNelly stated that he had proposed to Frank Herbert that they collaborate on a Dune prequel novel, expanding upon the Butlerian Jihad story presented in The Dune Encyclopedia. He noted, "FH and I had discussed writing it together and he agreed with my general plot outline, completed first chapter, and so on but his untimely death prevented us from continuing." "

taked from:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan. ... put=gplain

And also reading the goggle group post of McNellis above, he confirmed that "the story of the aborted female fetus in the DE which brought about
the Butlerian Jihad, that creation was entirely my own,..."

So we could say that Bh&KJA stoled the idea for their Butlerian Jihad and Serena Butler's plot from McNellis, and not from FH notes??

This is a great discovery for me, because McNellis claimed that all the Butlerian Jihad origin and story from the DE came from his mind with the approval of FH. He already confirmed that he had a first draft of a first chapter of the "Prequel to Dune: Butlerian Jihad" wrote with the FH contribution.

Could some1 stole that chapter from the McNellis family?
Or we could believe that BH&KJA have this chapter too?

And, for ending: "I am not sure that FH meant any paticular "Butler." "
How can they say their novels is based on FH notes???

For me, all this history lay itself in a mistery...

I don't think anyone is claiming that ALL of the prequels, interquels and
sequels are based off of FH's notes. This seems to be a common
misunderstanding that is becoming more prevalent. The only books that
are "allegedly" based on FH's notes are the the two books (whose names
I don't even know) that take place after Chapterhouse Dune. The House
books and the BJ books are NOT based on notes. I don't think KJA and
BH ever claimed they were.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I might have to find a source for this, but I'm pretty sure they claim that all of the books are to some extent based on notes left by FH. Not the notes that were found in the safe deposit box, but other notes which BH had kept. Obviously the prequels were 99.99% their own work, but this way they can keep people guessing about what was their own, and what was Frank's.

I'll see if I can find anything, anyone else remember if they've said this?

[Spicelon]

How nice to make claims based on "notes" that they won't even make public. Pathetic.

[Tyrant]

i thought i read some where that some of the material they used for the "house" books were from some of franks notes

[Freakzilla]

Kevin J. Anderson: We had to create a lot, but there were a couple things that helped. We found Frank Herbert's full and complete outline for "Dune 7," the last Dune book that he was going to do, which is set far in the future from the original ones. (Ours are prequels.) But there are also thousands of pages of his own character notes, background notes, his cogitations on the Bene Gesserit and how they formed, some back-history on the Butlerian Jihad… and I know I'm speaking a totally different language to someone who's not familiar with the books.

We have thousands of pages of notes. This was really funny, because Brian and I got together and started discussing the project without having any of the notes. When Frank Herbert died, he left the story of Dune on a cliffhanger. He never finished the story, and it just stops. So we were talking about trying to finish the story ourselves, kind of like The Mystery of Edwin Drood -- Charles Dickens died before that book was done, and other people completed it.

After we had already agreed to do it, we plotted some things. We decided to do the prequel instead of the sequel at the moment -- we will eventually do the last one. And after we had already plotted the prequel, that's when Brian, by digging through all the stuff we had on Dune, came upon the key to the safe deposit where he found the [Dune 7] outline.

Then Brian was trying to turn his garage into an office. Inside there, in a back corner, he found a Xerox (tm) box with thousands of pages of Frank Herbert's handwritten notes. It had all been put away at his father's death. Nothing was happening to them. It was like discovering this lost treasure or going into the C.I.A. warehouse and finding the Ark of the Covenant somewhere.

I know I'm gushing, but to me Frank Herbert was a great author, and I love Dune, so to find this is like finding the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's amazing stuff.

http://www.crescentblues.com/2_5issue/anderson.shtml

[A Thing of Eternity]

Kevin J. Anderson: We had to create a lot, but there were a couple things that helped. We found Frank Herbert's full and complete outline for "Dune 7," the last Dune book that he was going to do, which is set far in the future from the original ones. (Ours are prequels.) But there are also thousands of pages of his own character notes, background notes, his cogitations on the Bene Gesserit and how they formed, some back-history on the Butlerian Jihad… and I know I'm speaking a totally different language to someone who's not familiar with the books.

We have thousands of pages of notes. This was really funny, because Brian and I got together and started discussing the project without having any of the notes. When Frank Herbert died, he left the story of Dune on a cliffhanger. He never finished the story, and it just stops. So we were talking about trying to finish the story ourselves, kind of like The Mystery of Edwin Drood -- Charles Dickens died before that book was done, and other people completed it.

After we had already agreed to do it, we plotted some things. We decided to do the prequel instead of the sequel at the moment -- we will eventually do the last one. And after we had already plotted the prequel, that's when Brian, by digging through all the stuff we had on Dune, came upon the key to the safe deposit where he found the [Dune 7] outline.

Then Brian was trying to turn his garage into an office. Inside there, in a back corner, he found a Xerox (tm) box with thousands of pages of Frank Herbert's handwritten notes. It had all been put away at his father's death. Nothing was happening to them. It was like discovering this lost treasure or going into the C.I.A. warehouse and finding the Ark of the Covenant somewhere.

I know I'm gushing, but to me Frank Herbert was a great author, and I love Dune, so to find this is like finding the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's amazing stuff.

http://www.crescentblues.com/2_5issue/anderson.shtml

Listening to the Hack go on about how much he loves and respects FH just makes me inch his name higher and higher on my list of famous people I'm allowed to knock out if I meet them.

[Lisan Al-Gaib]

After we had already agreed to do it, we plotted some things. We decided to do the prequel instead of the sequel at the moment -- we will eventually do the last one. And after we had already plotted the prequel, that's when Brian, by digging through all the stuff we had on Dune, came upon the key to the safe deposit where he found the [Dune 7] outline.

Then Brian was trying to turn his garage into an office. Inside there, in a back corner, he found a Xerox (tm) box with thousands of pages of Frank Herbert's handwritten notes. It had all been put away at his father's death.

I found a inconsistency on their safety box explanation: On this interview, KJA is saying that BH found a key for the box, but I remember that on another interview, BH saying that some guy phoned then about a safety box locked somewhere.

What is they will tell us now?

[Freakzilla]

After we had already agreed to do it, we plotted some things. We decided to do the prequel instead of the sequel at the moment -- we will eventually do the last one. And after we had already plotted the prequel, that's when Brian, by digging through all the stuff we had on Dune, came upon the key to the safe deposit where he found the [Dune 7] outline.

Then Brian was trying to turn his garage into an office. Inside there, in a back corner, he found a Xerox (tm) box with thousands of pages of Frank Herbert's handwritten notes. It had all been put away at his father's death.

I found a inconsistency on their safety box explanation: On this interview, KJA is saying that BH found a key for the box, but I remember that on another interview, BH saying that some guy phoned then about a safety box locked somewhere.

What is they will tell us now?

I noticed that too, maybe I can find the interview where he says the lawyer found the key...

[Freakzilla]

Frank Herbert Lives
by Byron Merritt

"I remember the phone ringing in May of 1997 and it was this lawyer for Dad's estate," my uncle told me. "He said there was a safety deposit box that had been overlooked all these years at a local bank in Seattle. Initially I thought it might be jewelry from my mother's - Beverly Herbert's - estate that he'd kept for safe keeping or something. But then something in my head reminded me of those conversations I'd had with Dad before he passed away. I remember him working on that small Tandy computer in his hospital bed and me telling him to always save copies of his work."
Two weeks after that phone call Brian found himself, along with an estate attorney and the bank manager, covering their ears as two safety deposit boxes were drilled open for lack of any keys.
"I can't remember exactly what I was thinking at that particular moment," Brian said to me about this momentous day. "I knew there must have been something important in there for Dad to have kept it locked up."
The boxes were laid onto a table and Brian watched as the lids yawned open, as if waking from a deep slumber. From the first box, the attorney handed Brian volumes of recipes his father had cooked up (the "I write" man was also an excellent chef). In the second box were a few very old five-and-a-quarter-inch floppy disks with stacks of papers underneath.
"I remember being handed the papers and placing them on the table," Brian said to me, his voice rich with anticipation. "Then I uncovered the top page and my heart nearly stopped."
What Brian saw was beyond imagination and hope. He'd uncovered an item that'll be shared with millions of people. On the cover of the first page, scribbled in Frank Herbert's unmistakable hand, were two words: 'Dune 7.'


http://www.zone-sf.com/frankherbert.html

[Serkanner]

Great ... they didn't even try to get their stories straight.

[Lisan Al-Gaib]

Two weeks after that phone call Brian found himself, along with an estate attorney and the bank manager, covering their ears as two safety deposit boxes were drilled open for lack of any keys.

Exactly, I knew it was from Byron! I was searching for it.

Lack of any keys....I was thinking that maybe after BH received the call he searched for a key, but didnt found it.

But why KJA would be wrong in such a trivial information? If the box hadnt any key why he would say BH came upon a key to open it?

strange...

[Freakzilla]

Two weeks after that phone call Brian found himself, along with an estate attorney and the bank manager, covering their ears as two safety deposit boxes were drilled open for lack of any keys.

Exactly, I knew it was from Byron! I was searching for it.

Lack of any keys....I was thinking that maybe after BH received the call he searched for a key, but didnt found it.

But why KJA would be wrong in such a trivial information? If the box hadnt any key why he would say BH came upon a key to open it?

strange...

Well, he gets trivial Dune information wrong, I see a trend repeating itself.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Maybe he's just an idiot.







Scratch the maybe.

[Freakzilla]

Two weeks after that phone call Brian found himself, along with an estate attorney and the bank manager, covering their ears as two safety deposit boxes were drilled open for lack of any keys.

Exactly, I knew it was from Byron! I was searching for it.

Lack of any keys....I was thinking that maybe after BH received the call he searched for a key, but didnt found it.

But why KJA would be wrong in such a trivial information? If the box hadnt any key why he would say BH came upon a key to open it?

strange...

KJA contradicting himself:

After we had decided what to do, we met together in Brian's Seattle home, brainstormed the whole "Prelude to Dune" trilogy -- and THEN the Herbert estate lawyer called to say he had discovered an old safe deposit box key that had belonged to Frank. Inside the box was, among other things, the full and complete outline for Dune 7, the climactic novel Frank had intended to write. Later, while clearing out his garage to convert part of it into a writing office, Brian also found a large box of Dune notes Frank had stored there years before. Suddenly, we were faced with an overwhelming amount of material, clues, details, storylines, quotes-all of which we have incorporated into our books.

http://www.wormholebook.com/interviews/brian_kevin.htm

[Spicelon]

The HLP have provided absolutely zero reason to believe any of this. There are no notes.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I feel pretty confident that there are some notes; I just doubt that they were very extensive or that they were followed to any degree.

[Spicelon]

Which is sort of what I meant. There might as well not be any notes.

[Freakzilla]

http://www.dunenovels.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2709

In this interview, Byron Merritt claim uncle Brian told him over the phone about the newly discovered safe deposit box that they had to drill open for lack of keys:

Frank Herbert Lives
by Byron Merritt

"I remember the phone ringing in May of 1997 and it was this lawyer for Dad's estate," my uncle told me. "He said there was a safety deposit box that had been overlooked all these years at a local bank in Seattle. Initially I thought it might be jewelry from my mother's - Beverly Herbert's - estate that he'd kept for safe keeping or something. But then something in my head reminded me of those conversations I'd had with Dad before he passed away. I remember him working on that small Tandy computer in his hospital bed and me telling him to always save copies of his work."
Two weeks after that phone call Brian found himself, along with an estate attorney and the bank manager, covering their ears as two safety deposit boxes were drilled open for lack of any keys.
"I can't remember exactly what I was thinking at that particular moment," Brian said to me about this momentous day. "I knew there must have been something important in there for Dad to have kept it locked up."
The boxes were laid onto a table and Brian watched as the lids yawned open, as if waking from a deep slumber. From the first box, the attorney handed Brian volumes of recipes his father had cooked up (the "I write" man was also an excellent chef). In the second box were a few very old five-and-a-quarter-inch floppy disks with stacks of papers underneath.
"I remember being handed the papers and placing them on the table," Brian said to me, his voice rich with anticipation. "Then I uncovered the top page and my heart nearly stopped."
What Brian saw was beyond imagination and hope. He'd uncovered an item that'll be shared with millions of people. On the cover of the first page, scribbled in Frank Herbert's unmistakable hand, were two words: 'Dune 7.'

http://www.zone-sf.com/frankherbert.html

Yet in this interview, KJA claims the lawyer found the key:

After we had decided what to do, we met together in Brian's Seattle home, brainstormed the whole "Prelude to Dune" trilogy -- and THEN the Herbert estate lawyer called to say he had discovered an old safe deposit box key that had belonged to Frank. Inside the box was, among other things, the full and complete outline for Dune 7, the climactic novel Frank had intended to write. Later, while clearing out his garage to convert part of it into a writing office, Brian also found a large box of Dune notes Frank had stored there years before. Suddenly, we were faced with an overwhelming amount of material, clues, details, storylines, quotes-all of which we have incorporated into our books.

http://www.wormholebook.com/interviews/brian_kevin.htm

Which is correct?

Any bets on whether Byron will answer or just delete it?

Or maybe I'll be banned?

[SandChigger]

Personally—and I hope you understand what I mean—I hope he bans your ass.

It's all a hoax. They got shit besides grocery lists and recipes.

[Lisan Al-Gaib]

Any bets on whether Byron will answer or just delete it?
Or maybe I'll be banned?

I put all my coins that he'll only delete it.

I think he fears you.

[SandChigger]

If he has any sense at all (and the jury is still out on that one), he fears the repercussions.

They banned Freakzilla at the official board?!

Which was the point of my joke above: Freak posting there lends the place an authority it doesn't deserve.

Stop posting there and let it die.

[TheDukester]

"I can't remember exactly what I was thinking at that particular moment," Brian said ...

Pure comedy gold!