Meetings of the Landsraad


Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by SandChigger »

FH in CoD wrote: "We come at last to the Landsraad," Alia said, voicing her own belief.

"The next Landsraad session is almost two standard years away," Irulan reminded her.
Which begs the question, how often did they meet?

(That's right, I'm obsessed with time this morning! ;) )
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
User avatar
Kensai
Posts: 185
Joined: 25 Jun 2010 11:08
Location: Onn

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Kensai »

I always assumed they were anual or whenever circumstances required.
Survival is the ultimate ideology Image
Image
User avatar
SadisticCynic
Posts: 2053
Joined: 07 Apr 2009 09:28
Location: In Time or in Space?

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by SadisticCynic »

Kensai wrote:I always assumed they were anual or whenever circumstances required.
If Irulan claims the next one is two years away they are probably not annual. I suppose circumstances could dictate an emergency meeting but if a meeting is planned for two years away the Landsraad probably aren't thinking about circumstances being the motivation for a meeting. A lot of things can change in politics in two years.
Ah English, the language where pretty much any word can have any meaning! - A Thing of Eternity
User avatar
Robspierre
Posts: 2162
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 10:49
Location: Cascadia

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Robspierre »

The sessions may of been mostly ceremonial, the day to day stuff run by a bureaucracy went about their business out of sight is my guess.

Rob
User avatar
Kensai
Posts: 185
Joined: 25 Jun 2010 11:08
Location: Onn

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Kensai »

I am only just reading the Dune series againafter a two-three year break. Where is the quote from?
Survival is the ultimate ideology Image
Image
Serkanner
Administrator
Posts: 2974
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Serkanner »

Kensai wrote:I am only just reading the Dune series againafter a two-three year break. Where is the quote from?
Chapter 2 or 3 in Dune Messiah if I recall correctly.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
User avatar
Kensai
Posts: 185
Joined: 25 Jun 2010 11:08
Location: Onn

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Kensai »

I just started Messiah the otherday so I'l look out for it.
Survival is the ultimate ideology Image
Image
Serkanner
Administrator
Posts: 2974
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Serkanner »

Serkanner wrote:
Kensai wrote:I am only just reading the Dune series againafter a two-three year break. Where is the quote from?
Chapter 2 or 3 in Dune Messiah if I recall correctly.
Jeez! I should read the topic better next time. First post: FH in CoD = Children of Dune. ( p.86 of my pdf version )
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Freakzilla »

I think this is a lost cause. I don't think there's any other reference to how often they met so all we can assume that it is at least every two years. However, I would think it would take MUCH longer to organize.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
User avatar
reverendmotherQ.
Posts: 274
Joined: 05 Feb 2010 15:38
Location: Cylon Colony
Contact:

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by reverendmotherQ. »

Freakzilla wrote:I think this is a lost cause. I don't think there's any other reference to how often they met so all we can assume that it is at least every two years. However, I would think it would take MUCH longer to organize.
Agreed. I read it as understood. Like most things in Herbert's world - the Landsraad is not the platform for the "ideal government," just a tool to point out how everything in his story ties together.
PaxVass
Posts: 3
Joined: 12 May 2011 07:58

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by PaxVass »

I aways thought of it as something akin to the English Parliament before Parliament was regularised which is to say the Emperor could call it whenever he wanted but their would have been an infrequent meeting every say 5 years.

When you think how the Empire was run their was not a huge need for Landsraad to meet that often. The laws were pretty much enshrined and each planet was run by its house. I would think the only reason to call Parliament was if the Emperor needed troops or mabye levy some sort of extrodinary tax. Neither of which seemed very likely. The Emperor most likely had a quasi-judical function to arbitrate between house disputes but this would not need all parties to sit.

Most likely the Emperor would not want the Landsraad sitting too regularly much like the old English Kings who would often suspend Parliament for years and years. . .
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Freakzilla »

Good point.

And welcome!
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

Yup. Welcome!
Image
User avatar
Setzer
Posts: 64
Joined: 01 Sep 2011 11:43

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Setzer »

In book One, Paul mentions the possibility of the Duke convening the Landsraad to expose the Emperor's planned betrayal. So it may be possible for one of the Houses Major to call a meeting in some circumstances.
User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

It had to be possible, hard to have a functioning government that only ever meets on set dates and if there's an emergency they just say "oops, gotta wait till the next meeting". :wink:
Image
User avatar
Apjak
Posts: 519
Joined: 30 Jun 2008 12:06
Location: Kansas City

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Apjak »

I don't think of the Landsraad as a functioning government body. More a para-government organization, like the U.N. or a parliamentary council. Even under Shaddam IV, the interplanetary government was monarchy. All of the middle managers just got together to give their collected gripes to the CEO. Not to say that the Landsraad is a powerless organization, just divided small powers using collective bargaining.
I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. Anderson
We think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian Herbert
There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert
lukecash12
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 03:40
Location: Manteca, CA.

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by lukecash12 »

PaxVass wrote:I aways thought of it as something akin to the English Parliament before Parliament was regularised which is to say the Emperor could call it whenever he wanted but their would have been an infrequent meeting every say 5 years.

When you think how the Empire was run their was not a huge need for Landsraad to meet that often. The laws were pretty much enshrined and each planet was run by its house. I would think the only reason to call Parliament was if the Emperor needed troops or mabye levy some sort of extrodinary tax. Neither of which seemed very likely. The Emperor most likely had a quasi-judical function to arbitrate between house disputes but this would not need all parties to sit.

Most likely the Emperor would not want the Landsraad sitting too regularly much like the old English Kings who would often suspend Parliament for years and years. . .
It was probably laborious planning a meeting that involved everyone in the Landsraad. The human race was pretty frickin' huge at that point.
The sentence below this is false.
The sentence above this is true.
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by SandChigger »

lukecash12 wrote:It was probably laborious planning a meeting that involved everyone in the Landsraad. The human race was pretty frickin' huge at that point.
The size of the race is unimportant at this point since the Imperium is not a representative democracy. What matters is the number of Great Houses and how many representatives they send.
lukecash12
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 03:40
Location: Manteca, CA.

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by lukecash12 »

SandChigger wrote:
lukecash12 wrote:It was probably laborious planning a meeting that involved everyone in the Landsraad. The human race was pretty frickin' huge at that point.
The size of the race is unimportant at this point since the Imperium is not a representative democracy. What matters is the number of Great Houses and how many representatives they send.
Right. I was working under the assumption that many Houses held just a few fiefs, and that implicated to me that there was an enormous number of Houses (probably why it's discussed fairly often throughout the first three books that they didn't want to make the Houses feel threatened in general, because they would be overwhelmed).
The sentence below this is false.
The sentence above this is true.
User avatar
Setzer
Posts: 64
Joined: 01 Sep 2011 11:43

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Setzer »

Yeah, Paul felt it was very important not to antagonize the nobility. That's why he threatened to destroy the Spice if the Guild didn't play ball. That's why he launched a Jihad that killed billions. That's why he stripped the Emperor of all his CHOAM holdings and insisted on giving titles and governorships for every surviving Atreides soldier.

The Corrinos were concerned about the balance of power, not the Atreides. From Paul onwards, the Atreides were perfectly willing to stomp on everyone else to get what they wanted. Only in union did the Landsraad match the Sardaukar. When united against the Fremen, the Great Houses still stood no chance. The Atreides only had to worry about keeping the loyalty of the Fremen.
User avatar
trang
Posts: 1224
Joined: 06 May 2008 18:59
Location: Hot Tub Time Machine

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by trang »

a regular interval(two years seems kind a quick, but maybe) where all the Houses would come to meet to do the business of the empire (taxes, tributes, announcements, complaints, settle disputes) otherwise the Landsraad was event driven.

After the jihad? powerless, figurehead at best, and no normal interval.
"Long Live the Fighters", "Dragon.....the other white meat."

Image
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by SandChigger »

Setzer wrote:Yeah, Paul felt it was very important not to antagonize the nobility. That's why he threatened to destroy the Spice if the Guild didn't play ball. That's why he launched a Jihad that killed billions. That's why he stripped the Emperor of all his CHOAM holdings and insisted on giving titles and governorships for every surviving Atreides soldier.
:lol: :clap:
lukecash12
Posts: 51
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 03:40
Location: Manteca, CA.

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by lukecash12 »

Setzer wrote:Yeah, Paul felt it was very important not to antagonize the nobility. That's why he threatened to destroy the Spice if the Guild didn't play ball. That's why he launched a Jihad that killed billions. That's why he stripped the Emperor of all his CHOAM holdings and insisted on giving titles and governorships for every surviving Atreides soldier.

The Corrinos were concerned about the balance of power, not the Atreides. From Paul onwards, the Atreides were perfectly willing to stomp on everyone else to get what they wanted. Only in union did the Landsraad match the Sardaukar. When united against the Fremen, the Great Houses still stood no chance. The Atreides only had to worry about keeping the loyalty of the Fremen.
You do have a point, that for a while the Landsraad wasn't a concern. But it was once again in Children of Dune, for Alia. She had a discussion with Duncan and Irulan that expressed that, amongst other things.
The sentence below this is false.
The sentence above this is true.
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Freakzilla »

lukecash12 wrote:
Setzer wrote:Yeah, Paul felt it was very important not to antagonize the nobility. That's why he threatened to destroy the Spice if the Guild didn't play ball. That's why he launched a Jihad that killed billions. That's why he stripped the Emperor of all his CHOAM holdings and insisted on giving titles and governorships for every surviving Atreides soldier.

The Corrinos were concerned about the balance of power, not the Atreides. From Paul onwards, the Atreides were perfectly willing to stomp on everyone else to get what they wanted. Only in union did the Landsraad match the Sardaukar. When united against the Fremen, the Great Houses still stood no chance. The Atreides only had to worry about keeping the loyalty of the Fremen.
You do have a point, that for a while the Landsraad wasn't a concern. But it was once again in Children of Dune, for Alia. She had a discussion with Duncan and Irulan that expressed that, amongst other things.
That was because House Corrino then became just another Great House of the Landsraad. The Sardaukar plus the combined forces of the rest of the landsraad might could beat the Atreides.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
User avatar
Setzer
Posts: 64
Joined: 01 Sep 2011 11:43

Re: Meetings of the Landsraad

Post by Setzer »

Freakzilla wrote:
lukecash12 wrote:
Setzer wrote:Yeah, Paul felt it was very important not to antagonize the nobility. That's why he threatened to destroy the Spice if the Guild didn't play ball. That's why he launched a Jihad that killed billions. That's why he stripped the Emperor of all his CHOAM holdings and insisted on giving titles and governorships for every surviving Atreides soldier.

The Corrinos were concerned about the balance of power, not the Atreides. From Paul onwards, the Atreides were perfectly willing to stomp on everyone else to get what they wanted. Only in union did the Landsraad match the Sardaukar. When united against the Fremen, the Great Houses still stood no chance. The Atreides only had to worry about keeping the loyalty of the Fremen.
You do have a point, that for a while the Landsraad wasn't a concern. But it was once again in Children of Dune, for Alia. She had a discussion with Duncan and Irulan that expressed that, amongst other things.
That was because House Corrino then became just another Great House of the Landsraad. The Sardaukar plus the combined forces of the rest of the landsraad might could beat the Atreides.
I don't think so. After all, House Corrino only had one legion left. Even if it was back up to the standards that made the Sardaukar feared, that wouldn't break the Guild's stranglehold on space travel, or the Atreides stranglehold on the guild. The enemies of the Atreides weren't focusing on building their militaries so much as they were focusing on undermining the Atreides dynasty and splitting them from the Fremen.
Post Reply