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    Chapter 51

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      ʙᴏᴏᴋ ᴛʜʀᴇᴇ ɪɴ ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴜɴᴇ ᴄʜʀᴏɴɪᴄʟᴇꜱ

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    Chapter 51

    Postby Freakzilla » 09 Jul 2008 15:42

    Fremen speech implies great concision, a precise sense of expression. It is
    immersed in the illusion of absolutes. Its assumptions are a fertile ground for
    absolutist religions. Furthermore, Fremen are fond of moralizing. They confront
    the terrifying instability of all things with institutionalized statements. They
    say: "We know there is no summa of all attainable knowledge; that is the
    preserve of God. But whatever men can learn, men can contain." Out of this
    knife-edged approach to the universe they carve a fantastic belief in signs and
    omens and in their own destiny. This is an origin of their Kralizec legend: the
    war at the end of the universe.

    -Bene Gesserit Private Reports/folio 800881

    Namri tells Gurney that smugglers have found Leto and he’s in a safe place, Gurney wants to know where and to see him but Namri won’t tell him. They argue and eventually Namri tells him that Jessica is held captive on Salusa Secundus and the messages he thought were from her are from Alia, whom he is really working for. He attacks Gurney who has a trick sleeve he uses to kill Namri. He covers up the scene an leaves Jacurutu.
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    Re: Chapter 51

    Postby Freakzilla » 29 Jun 2012 15:06

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    Re: Chapter 51

    Postby ULFsurfer » 02 Jul 2012 22:45

    So here's something I didn't get during my re-read. If this whole captivity and spice feeding of Leto was all Alia's doing, then:
    1) How on Earth did she know Leto had survived the assassination and sought out Jacurutu?
    2) Why would she want him killed should he prove to lose control over himself? I would have thought that another abonimation would have been far more understanding towards Alia and perhaps even an ally.
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    Re: Chapter 51

    Postby Kronz » 30 Aug 2013 02:35

    In response to the the above, well isn't it just that Namri is a double agent? The spice plan was still Jessica/BG scheming with Gurney in the know. I read most of this book too fast and some finer points are kinda hazy. Also, Javid is Namri's son, allowing an easy link back to Alia.
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    Re: Chapter 51

    Postby Freakzilla » 30 Aug 2013 06:46

    1. The traitors that Gurney identified at the landing field when Jessica arrived mentioned Jacurutu durring interigation then died. Jessica sent Gurney there to investigate. Then, in Ghani's interview with Jessica, she tells him of Leto's dreams of Jacurutu.

    2. If Leto ascends to the throne, Alia is out of power.
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    Re: Chapter 51

    Postby Frybread » 29 Jan 2015 14:13

    I think it's interesting how Alia was revealed to be both savior of humanity and her own downfall in this chapter.

    Savior in the sense that without her ordering Namri to give Leto repeated overdoses of the spice essence, he might never have had such a complete vision of the Golden Path and its alternatives that led to destruction. And her own downfall in that Leto (by seeing the Golden Path) knew how to thwart Alia's plans, the total terraforming of Arrakis, and how to take complete, iron-fist control of the Empire.
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    Re: Chapter 51

    Postby D Pope » 30 Jan 2015 13:48

    ULFsurfer wrote:So here's something I didn't get during my re-read. If this whole captivity and spice feeding of Leto was all Alia's doing, then:
    1) How on Earth did she know Leto had survived the assassination and sought out Jacurutu?
    2) Why would she want him killed should he prove to lose control over himself? I would have thought that another abonimation would have been far more understanding towards Alia and perhaps even an ally.

    1) Alia knew because they, Namri and Gurney (via Javid) told her. It's important to
    note, she wasn't sure what to make of the info. There's a line or two about her
    confusion- she reflects on Ghanimas belief in Letos death.

    2) Remember, she's possessed by the Baron H. In return for a modicum of peace,
    most of her personality is lost- what's left is twisted beyond recognition. The
    Barons whole motivation is destruction- he pretty much wants to kill the entire
    imperium and has an achievable plan in place. At best, Leto is a latent threat,
    at worst, a direct threat to Vlads revenge.
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: Chapter 51

    Postby georgiedenbro » 30 Jan 2015 21:17

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it unclear who exactly was responsible for Leto's capture at Jacurutu? Was Alia the one who predicted Leto going there, or was it Jessica? And further, wasn't Jessica the one who wanted Leto tested for abomination, and not Alia? Alia wanted him saturated with spice so she could have access to his visions, but that's not entirely what Namri and Gurney were doing to him, is it?
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    Re: Chapter 51

    Postby Frybread » 01 Feb 2015 12:01

    georgiedenbro wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it unclear who exactly was responsible for Leto's capture at Jacurutu? Was Alia the one who predicted Leto going there, or was it Jessica? And further, wasn't Jessica the one who wanted Leto tested for abomination, and not Alia? Alia wanted him saturated with spice so she could have access to his visions, but that's not entirely what Namri and Gurney were doing to him, is it?


    At first I thought it was all Alia, working through Javid and Namri to fool Gurney into testing Leto. Now, having finished the book, I think it might have originally been ordered by Jessica. But Alia learned of the test through Namri and Javid, then ordered them to give Leto enough spice essence to have detailed visions before killing him. Plans within plans within plans.
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