Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to
your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because
that is according to my principles.
-Words of an ancient philosopher (Attributed by Harq al-Ada to one Louis
Veuillot)

Leto and Ghani sneak out of Sietch Tabr with a fruit basket concealing a Fremket, maula pistol, crysknife and the new robes from Farad'n. They mingle with the children in the orchard and make sure they're seen. Once away, they change into the new robes, put on the weapons and fremkits. They make their way between dunes across the open sand to The Attendant. Ghani anticipates attack soon. Leto computes that it will ba a predatory animal and Ghani corrects him, she thinks it will be two, to which he agrees. Leto's ancestral memories weigh heavily on him, he wishes he could flee his own consciousness. He knew what was going to happen. He was either going to be killed or pretend to be killed and Ghani would return, hypnotized into believing he was really dead. He's tempted to use his prescience but decides the threat of an absolute, unchanging future is too risky. After they see and are seen by the tigers, they go down into the rock cleft he had shown to Stilgar.

I wonder how Wensicia's Sardaukar knew the twins were going to be at The Attendant on just this night?

The entire plan seems hinged on a convoluted convergance that they can smuggle the Laza tigers near Sietch Tabr and the twins will be alone with the animals and they will be wearing the robes.

A traitor, I suppose; even then, the guards were quadrupled and they still got away unknown to The Attendant.

Not_Your_Friend wrote:The entire plan seems hinged on a convoluted convergance that they can smuggle the Laza tigers near Sietch Tabr and the twins will be alone with the animals and they will be wearing the robes.

You're right, it seems like a weak plot at best. I can forgive the location, allow a few days for the twins next field trip, and hope that the clothes weren't absolutely nessesary for targeting, but that's only three possible failure points- Winnie should've had better advice.
It seems the only reason it worked at all was because Leto & Ghani wanted it that way, how many days before had Leto brought Stilgar to The Attendant?

While we're on this chapter, asking questions with speculative answers, I always wondered about how the tigers were kept while waiting to perform their function. Easy enough, I guess, to bribe the guild for transport but how do you teach a pair of big cats to walk without rhythm? Were they sedated for the wait?
I'd like to know more about the tiger cage. The hutch has to house two large cats for transport and keep them alive & hidden while waiting in the desert heat close to Tabr on Arrakis.

Spoiler Alert!
A traitor was involved and could help with the location and timing, it would be interesting to know how Corrino agents got to him.

I forgot his name, but when Ghani returned to Sietch Tabr she killed the traitor.

D Pope wrote:I can forgive the location, allow a few days for the twins next field trip, and hope that the clothes weren't absolutely nessesary for targeting, but that's only three possible failure points- Winnie should've had better advice.

While we're on this chapter, asking questions with speculative answers, I always wondered about how the tigers were kept while waiting to perform their function. Easy enough, I guess, to bribe the guild for transport but how do you teach a pair of big cats to walk without rhythm? Were they sedated for the wait?
I'd like to know more about the tiger cage. The hutch has to house two large cats for transport and keep them alive & hidden while waiting in the desert heat close to Tabr on Arrakis.

Spoiler Alert!
A traitor was involved and could help with the location and timing, it would be interesting to know how Corrino agents got to him.

I wonder if the traitor was one of the guards Stilgar appointed? Even then I wonder how he's so capable to track the twins successfully when everyone else was dumpedas if they were a bunch of chumps?

Good questions about the tigers.

The tigers weren't on the sand but deployed on the rocks ... no need to walk without rythem.

Yeah, but how did they get there? Straight dropped in by 'thopter? The Fremen should know of that, even if they are silk shirt Fremen at this point.

That would leave a desert crossing.

The magic of Frank... he doesn't spell everything out and leaves some things to the imagination!

Serkanner wrote:I forgot his name, but when Ghani returned to Sietch Tabr she killed the traitor.

Palimbasha?

Freakzilla wrote:

Serkanner wrote:I forgot his name, but when Ghani returned to Sietch Tabr she killed the traitor.

Palimbasha?

That's the one. I am dreadful at remembering names.

Hadi Benotto wrote:The magic of Frank... he doesn't spell everything out and leaves some things to the imagination!

Agreed. At this point it may be fun to wonder, but it really wasn't an important aspect of the story, so he left it out. Frank does a great job of creating the illusion of activity without ever spelling it out in pain-staking, repetitive detail.

Not_Your_Friend wrote:I wonder if the traitor was one of the guards Stilgar appointed? Even then I wonder how he's so capable to track the twins successfully when everyone else was dumpedas if they were a bunch of chumps?

Keep reading, some questions are answered, some hinted at, and some are open to speculation. You don't really want to spoil the rest of the book, do you?

About the tigers;
We already know they're cyborgs, I doubt that it's a great leap to think that their implants could extend to a 'sleep' mode to keep them quiet till needed.
I also think that it's possible with such technology to build a cage that could be buried in the sand (not too deep) & keep them alive.
I doubt that they would've been stashed in the rocks (not impossible) but not too far out- it was rare to see worms around Tabr in those days but one came anyway. Unless the traitor had the bad luck of releasing his tigers in front of a worm that just happened to be there, I expect there was time enough to do the deed before a worm came.
I'm not sure the trator had to do much in the way of directing the tigers. (tracking the twins) Once the twins crossed the quanat, there wasn't much else for the tigers to find.
The twins were seen in a specific area, headed in a particular direction, the traitor & his minions would've been waiting for such news. Even if the tigers were stored on the opposite side of Tabr, it wouldn't have taken them long to get to the kill zone.

The weak points are the robes and the delivery of the tigers.
Perhaps Winnie thought that a gift from the Corrinos was too important not to wear. I'm thinking of all the awful fathers day ties that dads wear so as not to offend their children
Perhaps Palimbasha bribed/distracted the night watch in the area of the tigers arrival.

You forget Leto's prescience, he wanted this to happen. He walked them into it. They put the Corrino cloaks on on purpose.

Nekhrun wrote:

Hadi Benotto wrote:The magic of Frank... he doesn't spell everything out and leaves some things to the imagination!

Agreed. At this point it may be fun to wonder, but it really wasn't an important aspect of the story, so he left it out. Frank does a great job of creating the illusion of activity without ever spelling it out in pain-staking, repetitive detail.

I agree completely!
It is fun to think about such things but if my speculation detracts from the story, i'll cease immediately.

Freakzilla wrote:You forget Leto's prescience, he wanted this to happen. He walked them into it. They put the Corrino cloaks on on purpose.

Oops! Got ahead of me there. No Freak, I mentioned that before;

It seems the only reason it worked at all was because Leto & Ghani wanted it that way, how many days before had Leto brought Stilgar to The Attendant?

I've been wanting to say throughout this thread, it was a messiah perfect storm...

The legends were planted.

Jessica was a MP pro.

Paul was, well... the KH.

The Fremen read into it.

Whatever else you can add...

D Pope wrote:

Nekhrun wrote:

Hadi Benotto wrote:The magic of Frank... he doesn't spell everything out and leaves some things to the imagination!

Agreed. At this point it may be fun to wonder, but it really wasn't an important aspect of the story, so he left it out. Frank does a great job of creating the illusion of activity without ever spelling it out in pain-staking, repetitive detail.

I agree completely!
It is fun to think about such things but if my speculation detracts from the story, i'll cease immediately.

Not at all, that's one of the reasons for a discussion board. Now we can fill each other in on how we see the details playing out.

I pretty much blew my wad with 'about the tigers,' what do you think?
The more I think about that tiger hutch, the more complicated it gets.

D Pope wrote:I pretty much blew my wad with 'about the tigers,' what do you think?
The more I think about that tiger hutch, the more complicated it gets.

I think it's a reasonable assumption. That's one of the details I never spent much time imagining. I do find it likely that they were dropped off in the rocks and not running across the open sand

Since by this time, things were pretty much proceeding by Leto's design, it would be hard for things to happen any other way than what he planned (what with the whole passing through the narrow door in the vision of time thing).

The tiger plot is probably one of Frank's more intense action sequences now that I think about it.

I'll agree with that.
Wasn't the 'narrow door' idea always associated with the now?

D Pope wrote:I'll agree with that.
Wasn't the 'narrow door' idea always associated with the now?

The now can't happen any other way when you're the one choosing the path.

OK, we're getting ahead of ourselves. Many of these questions are answered later in the book.

Worms are rare at this point, only seen in the deep desert. I don't think that was an issue.
Leto isn't using conscious prescience at this point, his actions are based on a prescient dream.



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