Chapter 08


Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ

Post Reply
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Chapter 08

Post by Freakzilla »

And I beheld another beast coming up out of the sand; and he had two horns like a lamb, but his mouth was fanged and fiery as the dragon and his body shimmered and burned with great heat while it did hiss like the serpent.
-Revised Orange Catholic Bible

Many believe that The Preacher is actually Muad'dib returned from the desert. There are many similarities but the main one being that he was eyeless. Blind Fremen are extremely rare because they abandon the blind in the desert to Shai Hulud. He has come to the steps of Alias temple, led by a young Fremen guide, whom no one knew. Pilgrims are praying, buying relics and dancing, it is all too much for The Preacher.

He calls them all blasphemers and idolaters, Muad'dib spurns his religion and them and tells them sand will cover this place, as well as them. He asks his guide to take them away but a pilgim asks him if he is Muad'dib. He pulls out a dessicated, severed human hand, balled into a fist and says all he brings is the hand of god and speaks for it. He is The Preacher.
User avatar
dunaddict
Posts: 211
Joined: 24 Sep 2008 09:09
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Chapter 08

Post by dunaddict »

there were conversations in a hundred or more dialects of Galach interspersed with harsh gutturals and squeaks of outrine languages which were gathered under the Holy Imperium.
From Terminology of the Imperium in DUNE:
OUT-FREYN: Galach for "immediately foreign," that is: not of your immediate community, not of the select.
So, what is the correct translation of outrine? 'Not of your immediate culture'?
User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Chapter 08

Post by A Thing of Eternity »

We actually had a whole thread dedicated to this word at one point I think. Let me try the search function to see if I can find it.

EDIT: I can't find it, for some reason the search function only turns up your post when I search outrine.

Chig - you were the one leading that thread I think, do you remember where it's hidden?
Image
User avatar
SadisticCynic
Posts: 2053
Joined: 07 Apr 2009 09:28
Location: In Time or in Space?

Re: Chapter 08

Post by SadisticCynic »

A Thing of Eternity wrote:We actually had a whole thread dedicated to this word at one point I think. Let me try the search function to see if I can find it.

EDIT: I can't find it, for some reason the search function only turns up your post when I search outrine.

Chig - you were the one leading that thread I think, do you remember where it's hidden?
I was gonna post a link to that thread as well but when the search turned up nothing I figured I'd read it elsewhere.
Ah English, the language where pretty much any word can have any meaning! - A Thing of Eternity
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: Chapter 08

Post by SandChigger »

Rings a bell, but beats me. Arrakeen or Dune Novels? :?

FH uses the word twice, both in CoD; the first passage quoted by dunaddict and this:
"Salusa swarms with outrine relatives, all working upon Farad'n, hoping for a share in his return to power."
Compare that to one of the uses of out-freyn:
The greeting cheer lifted from the family galleries, and Feyd-Rautha paused to accept it, looking up and scanning the faces—seeing his cousines and cousins, the demibrothers, the concubines and out-freyn relations.
For reference, here's the only other use of that one, besides the Terminology entry:
"You saw the stranger, woman who went with Chani to the Reverend Mother?" Stilgar asked. "She's an out-freyn Sayyadina, mother to this lad. The mother and son are masters of the weirding ways of battle."
They kinda-sorta appear to mean about the same thing. Neither is a real word AFAIK, unless outrine is French or something? :?:
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Chapter 08

Post by Freakzilla »

"Outrine relatives" makes me think "not immediate family". :?
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Chapter 08

Post by Freakzilla »

Revised, clean.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
georgiedenbro
Posts: 1035
Joined: 11 Jun 2014 13:56
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Chapter 08

Post by georgiedenbro »

Children of Dune wrote:Through it all there were conversations in a hundred or more dialects of Galach
interspersed with harsh gutturals and squeaks of outrine languages which were
gathered under the Holy Imperium. Face dancers and little people from the
suspected artisan planets of the Tleilaxu
bounced and gyrated through the throng
in bright clothing. There were lean faces and fat, water-rich faces.
:shock:

I guess the Tleilaxu weren't very secretive about the existence of Face Dancers or about hiding what they could do. It's one thing for Paul or Stilgar to have heard of them, but here they are dancing like fools for everyone to see. Or maybe no one except the Preacher would have known they were really Face Dancers? Either way I guess the Face Dancers were just tourists like everyone else, and that not all Face Dancers were necessarily assassins or agents. If we interpret the passage as being the Preacher's perspective (and also infer he can see without eyes) then perhaps the Face Dancers were incognito and he saw through it. But if the passage is from a neutral point of view then we have to conclude that the FD's are showing off their shape-shifting for all to see. If they are really doing that...I mean wow.

In a society where it's generally known that there are shape-changers you'd think there would be insane paranoia, or crazy security involving DNA testing all over the place, especially anywhere near the palace. Maybe a KH or RM can detect a FD, but for any other security checkpoint they'd need some kind of scanners or blood tests. Star Trek DS9 did a great job of showing how terrible the security situation would be when the existence of shape-changers was generally known, especially when the shape-shifters are known to be from a people steeped in deception and intrigue like the Founders or the Tleilaxu.
"um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: Chapter 08

Post by Freakzilla »

Maybe face dancers are too valuable of an investment at this point to use less than openly or as an agent of espionage? IIRC, in Dune Messiah, Paul deduced that Lichna was a FD because he knew the girl and her family and through subtle signs of un-Fremen-like behavior, not through any particular "tell".
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
georgiedenbro
Posts: 1035
Joined: 11 Jun 2014 13:56
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Chapter 08

Post by georgiedenbro »

Freakzilla wrote:Maybe face dancers are too valuable of an investment at this point to use less than openly or as an agent of espionage? IIRC, in Dune Messiah, Paul deduced that Lichna was a FD because he knew the girl and her family and through subtle signs of un-Fremen-like behavior, not through any particular "tell".
Paul also saw through Scytale's 'lumbering brute' disguise earlier right away; I'm not sure if he knew it was a FD, but he knew it was an act. I think he saw signs of a 'performance' and betrayals of tiny behaviors that didn't fit.

Maybe the FD's by this point were more like a class of people, rather than particular agents of the state built for an assignment? Either way this passage had me scratching my head.
"um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"
Serkanner
Administrator
Posts: 2974
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

Re: Chapter 08

Post by Serkanner »

Also, Paul mentioned Scytale was a very good Facedancer. It was even difficult for Paul to see him for what he was. Perhaps other (regular) face dancers aren't but for entertainment and obvious to everybody to what they are
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."
Post Reply