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    Chapter 05

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    Chapter 05

    Postby Freakzilla » 13 Feb 2008 17:43

    The Fremen must return to his original faith, to his genius in forming human communities; he must return to the past, where that lesson of survival was learned in the struggle with Arrakis. The only business of the Fremen should be that of opening his soul to the inner teachings. The worlds of the Imperium, the Landsraad and the CHOAM Confederacy have no message to give him. They will only rob him of his soul.
    -The Preacher at Arrakeen

    Jessica and Gurney arive at Arrakeen from Caladan and are greeted by Alia, Irulan and Stilgar. Jessica's first, distant view of Alia's face confirms what she's feared. Alia is possessed. Alia knows she knows but is relieved to get past this first meeting. We find out that before she even gets all the way off the ship's ramp Jessica has an agenda. She raises her arms for a benediction and the people who were slow to kneel are weeded out or killed by Gurney's men. We learn that Jessica loves Gurney (what kind of love is not made clear) whom she is teaching Prana-Bindu, as if Gurney needed to be more dangerous. We meet Javid, one of the Priests, who is busy trying to rush Jessica of to a "Lustration" in Paul's old keep, which Jessica finally agrees to, thinking that Javid may eventually be an ally in the priesthood.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 10 Dec 2009 02:57

    For what it's worth, in this chapter it's made pretty clear that Jessica hasn't been back to Arrakis from Caladan since her departure between books 1 and 2.

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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby A Little Galach » 08 Apr 2010 17:02

    I really liked this chapter. I think the principal reason is that Stilgar and Gurney serve as control subjects to show how much everything has changed around them. And how Stilgar is no one's bitch.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 08 Apr 2010 17:04

    I like how FH does that a lot in this book, there are really great depictions of change that make you feel it, not just read it. This is a great scene, I love the swift weeding out of people.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby dunaddict » 20 Apr 2010 07:55

    Hunchback Jack wrote:For what it's worth, in this chapter it's made pretty clear that Jessica hasn't been back to Arrakis from Caladan since her departure between books 1 and 2.

    That's how I read this too. But then there's this from chapter 3:
    Gurney had chosen to return to Caladan with the Lady Jessica after Paul's
    death.

    Does this mean Jessica and Gurney visited Arrakis after Paul disappeared? However, Jessica's thoughts in this chapter suggest she returns here for the first time in twenty years..... or a Frank Herbert inconsistency? :shock:

    EDIT:
    wait... it doesn't say Gurney returned to Caladan from Arrakis :D
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 20 Apr 2010 13:13

    Yeah, this is getting odd. I just read these books too, I should remember this... I'm not sure.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby Freakzilla » 20 Apr 2010 13:48

    I don't see what the confusion is here. Jessica and Gurney went back to Caladan after Paul walked into the desert at the end of DM.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby dunaddict » 20 Apr 2010 14:02

    The problem is that Jessica was already on Caladan during Messiah, before he walked into the desert.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby Freakzilla » 20 Apr 2010 15:04

    Ah, I'd never noticed that.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 20 Apr 2010 15:16

    I guess it still doesn't say that she fled there from Arrakis, so it could just be that FH was being unclear and meant that she retreated there from somewhere else that she'd been travelling.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby inhuien » 20 Apr 2010 16:23

    This is the only reference to where Jessica is during the time of Messiah of Dune that I can find.
    FH in Messiah wrote:"Or perhaps the Emperor's mother," Scytale said. "The Lady Jessica, I understand, remains on Caladan, but is in frequent communication with her son."
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 20 Apr 2010 16:26

    Hmm, starting to look like dunaddict may have unearthed an FH mistake. Possibly missed in editing.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby RedHeadKevin » 17 May 2010 08:48

    It's entirely possible that Jessica returned to Arrakis for a short time after Paul's "death." You don't think she'd have gone to attend her son's funeral? Or at least to help oversee (or bless, as a Fremen Reverend Mother,) Alia's transition to the throne?
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby SandChigger » 17 May 2010 18:35

    I like to imagine her as commuting back on the weekends to suckle the grandkids on those fine, still-supple breasts of hers.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby Nekhrun » 17 May 2010 19:03

    SandChigger wrote:I like to imagine her as commuting back on the weekends to suckle the grandkids on those fine, still-supple breasts of hers.

    Freak stole all my "I like to imagine" quotes, but I guess this one works :)
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby Freakzilla » 29 May 2012 11:03

    I guess this is an error, but it's not like it makes much difference. Jessica went into seclusion on Caladan and this is her first time back in a long time.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby Freakzilla » 29 May 2012 11:04

    Revised, cleaned.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby georgiedenbro » 28 Sep 2014 01:53

    Assuming that the twins are right that Paul is the Preacher, the epigraph at the start of the chapter gives us some nice insight into Paul's motivations for taking the path he did in Messiah. Not only did his path presumably save the twins and prevent Chani's torture, but it also accomplished something that was the reason the twins were saved: Paul proved himself a true Fremen. All along he'd been balancing becoming a Fremen with being the Duke, and at the end of Dune he edged more towards being the Duke and then the Emperor. At the end of Messiah he finally found the path to becoming a true Fremen and leaving the trappings of the Empire behind him. This epigraph, if his, would be a nice way of showing us the 'Fremen Paul' as opposed to Emperor Paul; here he speaks his mind openly and isn't obliged to say what is necessary to achieve some goal. This is the real Paul, his real feelings.

    Children of Dune wrote:Alia chose anger as the easiest and most proper reaction.
    "How dare you plan an action such as this without consulting me?" she
    demanded, pushing her face close to Jessica's.
    Jessica spoke mildly: "As you've just heard, Gurney didn't even let me in on
    the whole plan. It was thought . . ."
    "And you, Stilgar!" Alia said, rounding on him. "To whom are you loyal?"
    "My oath is to Muad'Dib's children," Stilgar said, speaking stiffly. "We
    have removed a threat to them."
    "And why doesn't that fill you with joy . . . daughter?" Jessica asked.


    A cool sequence, which makes it seem like Jessica, Gurney and Stilgar intend to take control of Arrakis away from Alia. For Jessica's part we assume that she would want the BG to take control of both the planet and the twins; it's unclear whether Gurney would approve of that. Stilgar would do whatever is best for the Fremen, including if that means removing Alia. He might just assume that subsequently removing the BG as well would be comparatively easy.

    Children of Dune wrote:For a few brief heartbeats, Jessica and the Princess stood silently studying
    each other -- two Bene Gesserits who had broken with the Sisterhood for the same
    reason: love . . . both of them for love of men who now were dead. This Princess
    had loved Paul in vain, becoming his wife but not his mate.
    And now she lived
    only for the children given to Paul by his Fremen concubine, Chani.


    This passage is a bit weird, because really I got no sense in Messiah that Irulan had any designs on Paul other than siring his children; especially so based on the events in the first meeting of the conspiracy, where they all but tell her Paul will be destroyed but that she'll have her dynasty. Is this wistful fantasy on Jessica's part, or Frank's? Either way it makes for a tidy poetic parallel between Jessica and Irulan, but it seems a bit inaccurate to me. If it's true that Irulan came to realize love for Paul and his children after he went into the desert and broke from the Sisterhood then, it would still not jive that she loved him in vain when she became his wife.
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    Re: Chapter 05

    Postby Naib » 06 Jun 2015 08:29

    One of the most important aspects of this chapter, I think, is the marking out of Javid. Here Jessica sees immediately that Javid is not what Alia thinks he is and already starts planning on using him. Plans within plans within plans again.

    Also the use of the name Javid. Is the J a subtle foreshadowing of his involvement with Jacurutu, perhaps?
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