halcyo wrote:Freakzilla wrote:It's the ultimate drug. If you live through it you will be able to look into both masculine and feminine pasts. That combined with Paul's prescient dreams would be powerfull.
If a male lives through it, to be specific-right!?. Tell you what would be worth ALOT of discussion is this:
- The female is terrorized to see into the "Taker" half of their ancestral memory- all of the male greed, violence, and terrible 'maleness' would overwhelm the female psyche (as later happens to Alia-among other things), right?
That's not until Chapter 45. I have't gotten that far yet with the chapter reviews, but soon...
- The Bene Gesserit training is the only thing that allows a person to live through the trance- training that can allow a person to regulate internal bodily functions to 'change the poison'.
- If those two points are true, then could ANY male who is sufficiently trained (however rare) do this? The only thing that could justify the answer NO is if almost every other male in existence, up to Paul, was not really capable of Other Memory in the first place, no matter what the drugs, right? Perhaps the male is not sensitive enough to 'listen to his cellular memory', or something to that effect?
Surviving a poison is a minor trick compared to balancing the personas of your mother and father in your mind. Not only them, but their mothers and fathers and theirs, etc....
More of this is revealed in the later books but ancestral memory is only mentioned a couple more times in Dune.
Maybe you should start a topic on Other-Memory in the Bene Gesserit forum?
So Paul is the product of a line of breeding that makes him very unlike other males in the sense that he is able to also be more feminine somehow (Giver AND Taker), as well as his extraordinary prescient/mentat (somewhat the same in this sense) abilities that allow him to decipher the paths the future will take. Another discussion for another chapter: Does Paul
dream of the future, or does he compute it?:shock:
And on top of that, the spice then amplifies both of those inherent traits to extraordinary levels. Is this a consensus?
I'm curious to know what you guys think. I'm inclined to look at Dune more realistically than fantastically, but maybe I am trying too hard to justify my realist views... To me, the series, and all of the extraordinary abilities of the characters is due to thousands of years of human evolution, not just a fantastical imaginary 'magic', but others DO view Dune as being more 'out there' sci-fi in a more fictional universe (even though Frank clearly states that it IS in our universe-somewhere).
We need to start a Kwisatz Haderach topic in the BG forum too.