Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*


Moderators: Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Omphalos

User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Post by SandRider »

I'm smellin' some Jesuit on him, too.
Did you go to Catholic schools, Boba ?
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Post by SandChigger »

Or "either sex at will" is the explanation of what Jadacha brings to it.

If you're happier thinking of planets and peoples, be my guest.
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
User avatar
EsperandoAGodot
Posts: 186
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 21:03
Location: Brooklyn, NY and Lancaster, PA
Contact:

Post by EsperandoAGodot »

SandRider wrote:I'm smellin' some Jesuit on him, too.
Did you go to Catholic schools, Boba ?
High school. Jesuit indeed. What tipped you off?
SandChigger wrote:Or "either sex at will" is the explanation of what Jadacha brings to it.
Which would mean that Scytale is being redundant. The word has no basis in any language we know of to have anything to do with hermaphrodism or being a changeling, so that he brings it up at least means that the word "Jadacha" calls to mind an association with something relevant that would help his listeners understand him. "Jadacha" seems to imply what he says, yes, but the word itself is mysterious.
SandChigger wrote:If you're happier thinking of planets and peoples, be my guest.
I'm offering it as a possible explanation. Yours is possible, too. Neither are airtight.
Last edited by EsperandoAGodot on 09 Nov 2008 23:27, edited 1 time in total.
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium
A free-form, forum based RPG
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_war ... 346/p1/?11
Launched and ready to fire.
User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Post by SandRider »

BobaGodot wrote:
SandRider wrote:
I'm smellin' some Jesuit on him, too.
Did you go to Catholic schools, Boba ?

High school. Jesuit indeed. What tipped you off?
This ain't my first rodeo .....
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
User avatar
EsperandoAGodot
Posts: 186
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 21:03
Location: Brooklyn, NY and Lancaster, PA
Contact:

Post by EsperandoAGodot »

SandRider wrote:
BobaGodot wrote:
SandRider wrote:
I'm smellin' some Jesuit on him, too.
Did you go to Catholic schools, Boba ?

High school. Jesuit indeed. What tipped you off?
This ain't my first rodeo .....
Nothing more specific? lol
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium
A free-form, forum based RPG
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_war ... 346/p1/?11
Launched and ready to fire.
User avatar
EsperandoAGodot
Posts: 186
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 21:03
Location: Brooklyn, NY and Lancaster, PA
Contact:

Post by EsperandoAGodot »

Even if the masters are wrong, their intent is clear based on what they believe to be true, which is a big change from sending a Face Dancer to be a member of an elaborate assassination conspiracy.
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium
A free-form, forum based RPG
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_war ... 346/p1/?11
Launched and ready to fire.
User avatar
inhuien
Posts: 3638
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 05:03

Post by inhuien »

EsperandoAGodot wrote:Even if the masters are wrong, their intent is clear based on what they believe to be true, which is a big change from sending a Face Dancer to be a member of an elaborate assassination conspiracy.
I must be having an attack of the thick cause I've read what you wrote there 3 times and I'm still unsure of your meaning.

That being the case however it is completely logical for a Face Dancer to be part of the conspiracy as changes to identity were essential to the plot. But that wasn't the point I wanted to make and it half-baked.

Since when does compliance, in the case of to their Masters, equal stupidity. And why would the Masters, Genetic uber bodkins, create a blunt tool.
User avatar
EsperandoAGodot
Posts: 186
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 21:03
Location: Brooklyn, NY and Lancaster, PA
Contact:

Post by EsperandoAGodot »

Pardon that I don't have all my Dune here with me at college, but isn't the fact that they gain identity and independence through assuming many other identities a large part of what Daniel and Marty talk about at the end of Chapterhouse? That is, that they don't at first have either, and that the Tleilaxu don't foresee their gaining either as a consequence of what the Face Dancers are designed to do. IIRC that's not the first time a Face Dancers' lack of agency in its "relaxed" state is touched upon in the novel. On the other hand, Scytale is not merely a tool, but an active, planning conspirator that is often acting as himself.

Or maybe I'm just taking crazy pills, which is entirely possible.
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium
A free-form, forum based RPG
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_war ... 346/p1/?11
Launched and ready to fire.
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Post by Freakzilla »

Face Dancers absorbing personas is a latter developement in the series and isn't mentioned in the early books. Scytale had to act his part. Even though the late model or New Face Dancers (NFD, not to be confused with SFD) absorb their victem's persona, I'm sure they have a basic training as well as advanced mission specific training.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
User avatar
EsperandoAGodot
Posts: 186
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 21:03
Location: Brooklyn, NY and Lancaster, PA
Contact:

Post by EsperandoAGodot »

More important, though, is the implication in those quotes by Daniel and Marty - and I'm pretty sure it's outright stated in HoD and C: D - that the latter day Face Dancers are engineered to have no independence or identity.

Scytale very much has an identity.
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium
A free-form, forum based RPG
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_war ... 346/p1/?11
Launched and ready to fire.
User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18449
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Post by Freakzilla »

EsperandoAGodot wrote:More important, though, is the implication in those quotes by Daniel and Marty - and I'm pretty sure it's outright stated in HoD and C: D - that the latter day Face Dancers are engineered to have no independence or identity.
No, this is shown by Waff's suprise when his Face Dancer believes himself to actully be Rakian High Priest Tuek, whos persona it had absorbed.
Scytale very much has an identity.
Those are an different version of Face Dancer. I think the FD role changed with the developement of the technology. Durring Scytale's era, he had to act his part which requires much more skill than just absorbing a persona. I think the later were a one use weapon, thrown away after they had absorbed a persona and mission completed, where Scytale, who didn't absorb personas, could do multiple missions.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman
User avatar
EsperandoAGodot
Posts: 186
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 21:03
Location: Brooklyn, NY and Lancaster, PA
Contact:

Post by EsperandoAGodot »

Yeah, that's what I meant
DUNE - Chronicles of the Imperium
A free-form, forum based RPG
http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_war ... 346/p1/?11
Launched and ready to fire.
Frybread
Posts: 268
Joined: 16 Aug 2008 11:40
Location: Wyoming, USA

Post by Frybread »

I don't know if it was ever mentioned in the books or discussed here, but do Face Dancers age and die?

I am curious because while they are a huge threat to mankind, particularly the New Face Dancers like Marty and Daniel, they are sterile and would not really pose that big of a long-term threat if they die of old age and cannot reproduce.
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Post by SandChigger »

Or would it merely emulate that aging process? ;)

(Um...Scytale is a Master, not an NFD or SFD, right?)
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"
Frybread
Posts: 268
Joined: 16 Aug 2008 11:40
Location: Wyoming, USA

Post by Frybread »

SandChigger wrote:Or would it merely emulate that aging process? ;)

(Um...Scytale is a Master, not an NFD or SFD, right?)
Perhaps that's it. So you could have a NFD or SFD playing a feeble, old woman to catch someone off guard and then take them out with his normal strength and speed.
User avatar
Redstar
Posts: 1202
Joined: 25 Feb 2009 04:13

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by Redstar »

The Face Dancers are the ultimate ninja.

Note that the modern perception of a ninja in full black garb actually comes from the standard practice in Japanese theatre of stage hands wearing the same black costume... This costume was a signal to the audience that they were "invisible" and to be ignored. Imagine the surprise in one particular showing when one of these "invisible" stagehands crept up behind an actor and stabbed him to death. No one expected it.

Considering the Face Dancers' role (and origins?) as actors/performers, it's a pretty cool real-life comparison.
User avatar
inhuien
Posts: 3638
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 05:03

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by inhuien »

So would that make the Fremen the ultimate Pirates? :lol: :lol:
User avatar
Redstar
Posts: 1202
Joined: 25 Feb 2009 04:13

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by Redstar »

inhuien wrote:So would that make the Fremen the ultimate Pirates? :lol: :lol:
Cool
User avatar
Ampoliros
Posts: 2518
Joined: 14 Mar 2008 11:22
Location: I think we took a wrong turn...

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by Ampoliros »

When was the last time you saw Face Dancers with wenches?
Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus
User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by SandRider »

Redstar wrote: Note that the modern perception of a ninja in full black garb actually comes from the standard practice in Japanese theatre of stage hands wearing the same black costume... This costume was a signal to the audience that they were "invisible" and to be ignored. Imagine the surprise in one particular showing when one of these "invisible" stagehands crept up behind an actor and stabbed him to death. No one expected it.
really ?

I always kinda thought the black outfit was to help conceal them in shadows at night ....
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by SandChigger »

Forgot to ask earlier: more details on that murder anecdote? :)
User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by SandRider »

what murder ? the Glenn Beck thing ?
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14492
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: A continuing state of irritation
Contact:

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by SandChigger »

Um ... well, OK, that one, too. :P

But the one I originally meant was this one:
Redstar wrote:Imagine the surprise in one particular showing when one of these "invisible" stagehands crept up behind an actor and stabbed him to death.
Sounds interesting. I've never heard anything like that, but then I'm not a big Kabuki/Noh history buff. It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
User avatar
Redstar
Posts: 1202
Joined: 25 Feb 2009 04:13

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by Redstar »

SandRider wrote:I always kinda thought the black outfit was to help conceal them in shadows at night ....
It's likely a ninja would have had a garb for the night, but note that ninjas basically sat around in bars spreading rumours about themselves so they could get jobs. They pretty much sucked. Any good ones would just wear normal clothes, since that helps you blend more than a full-body death suit.
SandChigger wrote:
Redstar wrote:Imagine the surprise in one particular showing when one of these "invisible" stagehands crept up behind an actor and stabbed him to death.
Sounds interesting. I've never heard anything like that, but then I'm not a big Kabuki/Noh history buff. It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
It was actually a part of the play, which made it such a dramatic presentation. It's the kind of "Oh shit!" reaction KJA wishes he could invoke with his ancient oral medium.
User avatar
E. LeGuille
Posts: 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2009 02:22

Re: Everything you ever wanted to know about Face Dancers*

Post by E. LeGuille »

Redstar wrote:It was actually a part of the play, which made it such a dramatic presentation. It's the kind of "Oh shit!" reaction KJA wishes he could invoke with his ancient oral medium.
:pray:
Dear God, please grant me the ability to make an "Oh Shit!" moment. Amen.
Image
Long Live the Fighters.
Post Reply