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    The Wekht of Jandola?

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    The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby SandChigger » 13 Dec 2010 22:04

    Anybody got any clues about this one? Unless that Chapterhouse quote I've asked about in the other thread turns up, this is only mentioned twice (that I can find) in FH's books:

    In Heretics of Dune, FH wrote: Waff closed his eyes and waited for the others to leave. Masheikh! How good it was to name themselves in kehl, speaking the language of Islamiyat, which no Tleilaxu spoke outside his own secret councils; not even to Face Dancers did they speak it. Nowhere in the Wekht of Jandola, not to the farthest reaches of the Tleilaxu Yaghist, was there a living powindah who knew this secret.

    Yaghist, Waff thought, rising from his bench. Yaghist, the land of the unruled.

    In Chapterhouse: Dune, FH wrote: "The Wekht of Jandola is no more," he said. "Billions of us slain by those whores. To the farthest reaches of the Yaghist, we are destroyed and only I remain."

    Yaghist, she thought. Land of the unruled. It was a revealing word in Islamiyat, the Bene Tleilax language.

    FH appears to have been using it as synonymous with Yaghist, the realm of the Tleilaxu. (The variant passage in the other thread pretty much equates it to "Tleilaxu hegemony".)

    Jandola is an actual place in Pakistan, but there's nothing online (other than Dune references) that associate it with something called a "wekht". (It doesn't appear to be a famous archeological site or architectural object, for example.) I've wondered what "wekht" derives from, but have never been able to find anything. The word isn't in the Graham and Doughty books, either.

    What's brought this up all of a sudden is a couple of google hits on HToD that I noticed in the access logs. Seems a guy named Rick Wakely (ring any bells for anyone?) has been tooling around the Web looking for the origins of wekht, kehl, Yaghist, and a couple other Tleilaxu terms. (Not with much luck, it appears.)

    I guess I need to check the lists of FH's books to see if there were any old travelogues for Persia, Afghanistan and India. ;)
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby MrFlibble » 21 Dec 2010 22:44

    Well, seeing as how you've been able to find sources for so many words already, we can hope that sooner or later, this mystery will be solved as well :) BTW, what about the Yaghist? Have I missed the explanation for that one?
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby SandChigger » 21 Dec 2010 23:04

    We can hope. I think I pinned down another one last night in a totally unexpected place. ;)

    (Not a source, but another pointer in a direction we're already familiar with. Gonna blog it up tonight after I get home.)

    Yaghist I haven't really looked for yet. But it's one of those words that Rick Wakely guy is also looking for. (Wekht, Yaghist and kehl were others.)

    (On one forum, some dimwit told him that the words were meaningless outside the novel he referenced. We've seen how foolish that opinion is! ;) )
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby Aquila ka-Hecate » 22 Dec 2010 08:07

    I look forward to your blog post Chig.

    Wekht appears to be Afghani.
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby SandChigger » 22 Dec 2010 12:39

    It's going to be tomorrow morning, now, on the post.

    Did you find something for wekht online then? :)
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby Aquila ka-Hecate » 22 Dec 2010 12:57

    SandChigger wrote:It's going to be tomorrow morning, now, on the post.

    Did you find something for wekht online then? :)


    Ya - I was idly googling the word and came up with mostly Afghani sites.

    I have no idea what it means, although the word is demonstrably there. I had to go write some code about then, to earn my daily bread.
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 22 Dec 2010 14:44

    If I was FH I would have totally just made a few up to mess with people researching the stuff.
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby SandChigger » 22 Dec 2010 19:28

    Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:Ya - I was idly googling the word and came up with mostly Afghani sites.

    I got a lot of copies of some poem/song lyrics. Not being able to tell Pashto (I assume) heads from tails, it's kinda hard to tell what it means, even with the translation. :lol:
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby muddism » 20 Sep 2011 16:00

    Lowland Scotch as spoken in the lower Strathearn district of Perthshire...

    Wekht - 1) weight
    2) a round vessel for holding corn
    3) balance


    hope that helps some, it's the only reference to wekht that I would find.



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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby lotek » 21 Sep 2011 08:00

    That's interesting !

    (imagine a Scots on Arrakis though, "Feckin' heel it's as dry as a worm's gob here .!")

    Anyway...

    It reminds me of the "sevagram" at the end of Van Vogt's Weapon Makers
    What we'll wind up ruling, by inevitable historical process. At the end of The Weapon Makers a casual super-race intruded, observed humanity briefly, and pronounced it the race that would rule the Sevagram. It was finally revealed that the word came from a speech by Gandhi; the Hindus believe that the village is the center of the universe, and their word for "village" is "sevagram".

    http://fancyclopedia.wikidot.com/sevagram

    Nowhere in the Wekht of Jandola, not to the farthest reaches of the Tleilaxu Yaghist,


    that sentence structure makes me think the two concepts are either opposed as in "from the south to the north" kind of way, or that possibly one is just a smaller secret part of the other.
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby muddism » 22 Sep 2011 00:12

    Hmm...possibly wekht means city...wekht being the vessel that holds tleilaxu, instead of corn.

    The city of Jandola

    Does that sound likely?
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby SandChigger » 22 Sep 2011 12:04

    Thanks for the input! It would be really odd (but not impossible) for FH to have mixed something Scottish into the mix.... :think:
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby Ampoliros » 22 Sep 2011 18:16

    Sounds like its something like the Fremen Tau. Wekht = Tau and Jandola is either the person or location that first spread this idea. Something like Augustine's "City of God".

    That's my interpretation, at least. Wekht is the body/society created from the community of the Tleilaxu religion. As Waff is the only one left, it no longer has meaning.
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby SandChigger » 23 Sep 2011 07:31

    Ahp.

    I was more interested in the etymology of the name. The Scottish origin idea makes less and less sense. ;)
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby muddism » 24 Sep 2011 14:57

    You're probably right but that was the only definition of the word that I could find in any language so I thought I would post it.
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby Omphalos » 24 Sep 2011 16:30

    SandChigger wrote:Thanks for the input! It would be really odd (but not impossible) for FH to have mixed something Scottish into the mix.... :think:


    Why? The "Orange" of the OCB is an Irish reference that has Scottish connections
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby Serkanner » 24 Sep 2011 17:57

    Omphalos wrote:
    SandChigger wrote:Thanks for the input! It would be really odd (but not impossible) for FH to have mixed something Scottish into the mix.... :think:


    Why? The "Orange" of the OCB is an Irish reference that has Scottish connections


    Or it is a reference to the name of the Dutch royal family. This would make sense because it was Stadhouder Willem III who became the protestant King of England after he married Mary. The Irish "Orange" are named after the Stadhouder-Koning. :wink:
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby Omphalos » 24 Sep 2011 18:03

    I took it as something that came out of the C.E.T. The melding of Catholics and Protestants.
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby Serkanner » 24 Sep 2011 18:28

    Omphalos wrote:I took it as something that came out of the C.E.T. The melding of Catholics and Protestants.


    So have I. But the "Orange" part is hardly just an "Irish" thing. The Protestant movement eventually reached Ireland after half of Europe was already converted to one of the many Protestant movements. The Dutch variant ... not really Dutch but it stuck ... was the teachings of Calvin. The Protestant ( Calvinist ) part of The Netherlands revolted against the Spanish empire in the 16th Century under the leadership of the noble family of Oranje Nassau ... we won and became a Republic in which the Oranje Nassau family gained a lot of power. This resulted in the invitation to Stadhouder Willem III to invade England because he was married to Mary Stuart. He was proclaimed King of England and Ireland ... The use of the protestant Irish people of the colour Orange is related to the house of Orange. The Orange marches in Northern Ireland are a celebration of the landing of Willem III in England and the defeat of the last Catholic king of England James II Stuart.
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby Omphalos » 24 Sep 2011 21:57

    Serkanner wrote:
    Omphalos wrote:I took it as something that came out of the C.E.T. The melding of Catholics and Protestants.


    So have I. But the "Orange" part is hardly just an "Irish" thing. The Protestant movement eventually reached Ireland after half of Europe was already converted to one of the many Protestant movements. The Dutch variant ... not really Dutch but it stuck ... was the teachings of Calvin. The Protestant ( Calvinist ) part of The Netherlands revolted against the Spanish empire in the 16th Century under the leadership of the noble family of Oranje Nassau ... we won and became a Republic in which the Oranje Nassau family gained a lot of power. This resulted in the invitation to Stadhouder Willem III to invade England because he was married to Mary Stuart. He was proclaimed King of England and Ireland ... The use of the protestant Irish people of the colour Orange is related to the house of Orange. The Orange marches in Northern Ireland are a celebration of the landing of Willem III in England and the defeat of the last Catholic king of England James II Stuart.


    I was aware of the war (the second SF book ever was set during it) and only vaguely of the connection, so thanks for the info! But FH was of Irish on his mother's side and after reading The White Plague I'm afraid I've let Irish history and politics color all of the wool-gathering I do about FH.
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    Re: The Wekht of Jandola?

    Postby SandChigger » 25 Sep 2011 12:13

    I meant odd in connection with something so obviously Muslim (& Pakistani?).

    Besides, wekht = weight makes no sense in context. ;)
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