Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Image
    Master Geneticists and Sufi-Zensunnis

Moderators: ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Omphalos, Freakzilla

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandChigger » 18 Feb 2010 10:11

I haven't found any prior mention of this (even on Khalid Baheyeldin's page), but one possible origin of this odd word might be the Arabic verb faṭara, "to make, create, bring into being, bring forth (something; used of God)". Among the words derived from this verb is fiṭra "creation"; (plural fiṭar) "nature, (natural) disposition, constitution, temperament, innate character, instinct."

There is also faṭûr, meaning "breakfast", which is semantically far from the mark, but the form of the word is suggestive. A bit of vowel shortening and order switching (metathesis) and presto, change-o, futar! Not so inconceivable when you consider what FH did to other words to come up with some of the other language in the books. Like subakh al kuhar from sabaḥ al-khair.

Purely speculation, but the artificial, "created" nature of the Futars in the books makes it seem at least possible.

User avatar
reverendmotherQ.
Posts: 274
Joined: 05 Feb 2010 15:38
Location: Cylon Colony
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 18 Feb 2010 23:34

SandChigger wrote:There is also faṭûr, meaning "breakfast", which is semantically far from the mark, but the form of the word is suggestive.
.

I am certain that a Honored Matre on the run from one wouldn't think it was so far from the mark since she's about to become breakfast.

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandChigger » 19 Feb 2010 02:52

Ha ha, yeah, there is that aspect of it. Could FH have been having some fun with it? ;)

MrFlibble
Posts: 314
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby MrFlibble » 19 Feb 2010 07:22

Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words - did he learn Arabic, or had any speakers among his friends? BTW, SandChigger, you mentioned a book in your blog that could have been a source of some Arabic words in Dune, has further investigation shown anything else of interest in that direction?
WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!

User avatar
Nekhrun
Icelandic Wiener
Posts: 3288
Joined: 10 Feb 2008 16:27

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby Nekhrun » 19 Feb 2010 16:41

MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there. :character-cookiemonster:
"If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

Happy Memorial Day everyone! -James C. Harwood

"Three of my videos have over 100 views."
"Over 500 views for my 'Open Question' video." -Nebiros

User avatar
Omphalos
Inglorious Bastard
Posts: 6623
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 11:07
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby Omphalos » 19 Feb 2010 18:11

Nekhrun wrote:
MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there. :character-cookiemonster:

Beat me to that one.

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandChigger » 20 Feb 2010 01:03

:roll:

Don't mind the yuck-yucks, MrFlibble. They mean well. Sort of. I think. ;)

That one book didn't turn up too much more, but it was an interesting read, like many British travelogues from that period. I'll go back and review the blog post and see what else has to be added (probably in a new post).

MrFlibble
Posts: 314
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby MrFlibble » 20 Feb 2010 11:58

Nekhrun wrote:
MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there. :character-cookiemonster:

Captain Obvious to the rescue, eh? :roll:

SandChigger wrote:That one book didn't turn up too much more, but it was an interesting read, like many British travelogues from that period. I'll go back and review the blog post and see what else has to be added (probably in a new post).

It's still a very interesting find. Do you intend on compiling some sort of database of possible sources of words, notions and maybe other things in Dune akin to (or in addition to) Khalid's Arabic themes page? Oh, and speaking of that, is there any in-depth research of Dune as work of literature concerning its sources, themes etc. apart from McNelly's writings and a few other online articles like the Star Wars Origins: Dune page? Any academic papers or books?
WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!

User avatar
Nekhrun
Icelandic Wiener
Posts: 3288
Joined: 10 Feb 2008 16:27

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby Nekhrun » 20 Feb 2010 16:39

MrFlibble wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:
MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there. :character-cookiemonster:

Captain Obvious to the rescue, eh? :roll:

I don't get it.
"If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

Happy Memorial Day everyone! -James C. Harwood

"Three of my videos have over 100 views."
"Over 500 views for my 'Open Question' video." -Nebiros

User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 20 Feb 2010 17:32

Nekhrun wrote:
MrFlibble wrote:
Nekhrun wrote:
MrFlibble wrote:Interesting! I wonder where Frank got all the Arabic words...

From the Arabic language. You should see all of the Arabic words there are there. :character-cookiemonster:

Captain Obvious to the rescue, eh? :roll:

I don't get it.


Captain Obvious doesn't get "Captain Obvious"? What a day for irony! :lol:
Image

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandChigger » 20 Feb 2010 21:07

:P

MrFlibble wrote:It's still a very interesting find. Do you intend on compiling some sort of database of possible sources of words, notions and maybe other things in Dune akin to (or in addition to) Khalid's Arabic themes page?

Haven't really thought that far ahead; I guess it depends on how many interesting items turn up.

Khalid's page is a great resource, but it's incomplete, mainly as a result of his not having read the books, I suspect.

Oh, and speaking of that, is there any in-depth research of Dune as work of literature concerning its sources, themes etc. apart from McNelly's writings and a few other online articles like the Star Wars Origins: Dune page? Any academic papers or books?

This sounds like a job for the OMPHALOS and his biblio page! :)

User avatar
reverendmotherQ.
Posts: 274
Joined: 05 Feb 2010 15:38
Location: Cylon Colony
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 20 Feb 2010 22:40

^ agreed. If I wasn't a student who is ironically currently procrastinating, I would engage little projects like this. Hell, If I ever go for graduate studies, I would use Dune as a dissertation for literary analysis.

MrFlibble
Posts: 314
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby MrFlibble » 21 Feb 2010 10:42

reverendmotherQ. wrote:If I ever go for graduate studies, I would use Dune as a dissertation for literary analysis.

That would be great :) By the way, what's your major?

On a related note, I wonder if you need any kind of approval from the copyright holders if you want to quote copyrighted material for the purposes of literary analysis?
WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!

User avatar
reverendmotherQ.
Posts: 274
Joined: 05 Feb 2010 15:38
Location: Cylon Colony
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 24 Feb 2010 12:35

MrFlibble wrote:
reverendmotherQ. wrote:If I ever go for graduate studies, I would use Dune as a dissertation for literary analysis.

That would be great :) By the way, what's your major?

On a related note, I wonder if you need any kind of approval from the copyright holders if you want to quote copyrighted material for the purposes of literary analysis?

English writing, specializing in technical/scientific and creative. I don't believe so unless you are publishing it in mass. Hmm. Very good question actually.

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandChigger » 24 Feb 2010 20:12

Ah, thanks for the reminder; I knew there was something else I wanted to check and post about here! :)

MrFlibble wrote:On a related note, I wonder if you need any kind of approval from the copyright holders if you want to quote copyrighted material for the purposes of literary analysis?

Unless you're wanting to use a table, graph, photograph, map or other illustration, you don't need to get the prior approval of the copyright holder.

For textual quotation, the standard of "fair use" applies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Basically, you're free to quote for purposes of review, analysis, parody, etc. so long as you don't quote too much of the original (depends on the total percentage of the original quoted and whether the quoted parts are the "essential core/heart" of the work ... whatever that means! :P ).

For example, if we ever decided to do a "Dune Concordance", we probably wouldn't be able to quote the passages in which keywords appear like in a traditional (Biblical) concordance because it might run afoul of the amount restriction. (Maybe not.)

User avatar
reverendmotherQ.
Posts: 274
Joined: 05 Feb 2010 15:38
Location: Cylon Colony
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 24 Feb 2010 21:39

Hm. Thank you. This is quite helpful.
URGH. Damn Herbert Properties and their systematic ruin of our favorite book while banning us from expanding and enriching the resources available to Dune fans.

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandChigger » 25 Feb 2010 01:35

Well, you just have to be more clever than they are.

And that's not terribly difficult. FH took the family brains with him.

User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandRider » 25 Feb 2010 02:34

fuck em.
in the neck.

I say the Living Herbert Parasites have abused the copyright to the point it doesn't even exist.

Parasites feel different ?
good, spend some of Frank's money on lawyers ... you assholes. all of you ... everyone ... and the people you married and your spawn ...

fuck you.

swear to God, someone get me the Spanish Dune Film, I'll bootleg around the fucking world and back.
wanna write Dune7 ? I'll get it printed (on newpaper stock up in Abilene, but hey, that's publishing, too; Right, Keith ?)

in fact, I think I'll mosey over to freenetforums and start up about a hundred message boards on the
variation of "The Real Official Dune Forum and Website, approved by the Herbert Estate" ....

fuck 'em all.
in the neck.
twice.
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

User avatar
inhuien
Posts: 3629
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 05:03
Location: right here as in not (all) there

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby inhuien » 25 Feb 2010 05:53

Neck fuck/Tracheaphilia/Trachyphyllia

Image

Sea, he's a sponge want ever way you cut it.
Image

User avatar
reverendmotherQ.
Posts: 274
Joined: 05 Feb 2010 15:38
Location: Cylon Colony
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby reverendmotherQ. » 25 Feb 2010 12:44

^ahahahahahah! :laughing-rolling:
Yeah, once they spend all of his money, then its possible to have a more open forum for writing on the market about Dune. As long as it alway refers and remains consistent with the original, why prohibit discussion and analytical exposition on what will be a great literary work for study if only some dolts would get off the Herbert High horse and get a real life that isn't trying to badly live under Frank's shadow.

MrFlibble
Posts: 314
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 11:25

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby MrFlibble » 25 Feb 2010 12:47

SandRider wrote:swear to God, someone get me the Spanish Dune Film, I'll bootleg around the fucking world and back.
wanna write Dune7 ? I'll get it printed (on newpaper stock up in Abilene, but hey, that's publishing, too; Right, Keith ?)

in fact, I think I'll mosey over to freenetforums and start up about a hundred message boards on the
variation of "The Real Official Dune Forum and Website, approved by the Herbert Estate" ....

You sure have a lot of free time on your hands, don't you :lol: I didn't mean anything like that, actually, it's just I have this little paper I wrote for the course in "Linguostylistic Analysis" (whatever that means) a couple years ago, and I was thinking I might sometime have it published somewhere (although it's mostly pure blah-blah anyway). I used the material from Chapterhouse Dune for that analysis ("'Word' as a concept of culture" or something), so I got worrying if I might need to contact the HLP prior to any attempts at sending it anywhere (not that I'm going to try for that anytime soon, just pondering the idea).

SandChigger wrote:Unless you're wanting to use a table, graph, photograph, map or other illustration, you don't need to get the prior approval of the copyright holder.

For textual quotation, the standard of "fair use" applies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Basically, you're free to quote for purposes of review, analysis, parody, etc. so long as you don't quote too much of the original (depends on the total percentage of the original quoted and whether the quoted parts are the "essential core/heart" of the work ... whatever that means! :P ).

Thanks for the information. :mrgreen:
WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandChigger » 25 Feb 2010 17:24

You're welcome. :)

MrFlibble wrote:I have this little paper I wrote for the course in "Linguostylistic Analysis" (whatever that means) a couple years ago, and I was thinking I might sometime have it published somewhere (although it's mostly pure blah-blah anyway). I used the material from Chapterhouse Dune for that analysis ("'Word' as a concept of culture" or something), so I got worrying if I might need to contact the HLP prior to any attempts at sending it anywhere (not that I'm going to try for that anytime soon, just pondering the idea).

Nah, this shouldn't be a problem. I personally wouldn't give them the satisfaction of contacting and asking them.

(Keep in mind that unofficial/unauthorized Science of Dune that came out a year or so ago. It was a collection of essays by various people, and in the front says something about the book not being approved or authorized by the HLP.)

User avatar
A Thing of Eternity
Posts: 6090
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 15:35
Location: Calgary Alberta

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 25 Feb 2010 17:26

SandChigger wrote:(Keep in mind that unofficial/unauthorized Science of Dune that came out a year or so ago. It was a collection of essays by various people, and in the front says something about the book not being approved or authorized by the HLP.)


I totally forgot about that, I should grab it some time...
Image

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandChigger » 25 Feb 2010 17:28

Meh. If you can find it at the library, or in the bargain bin, yeah, grab it. I was considerably underwhelmed.

User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Re: Origin of the name/word "Futar"

Postby SandRider » 26 Feb 2010 04:07

Fibble - Omph's got a thread @ T(A)U that lists a bunch of academic papers on Frank's Dune ....
(don't have it bookmarked & won't search, Omph will be by and link you - or search yourself,
I think it's "Dune Resources" or somesuch.

me being no respecter of copyright whatsoever (fuck you, ideas are free)
copied some of them to the archive I started to do about a year and a half
ago - you may be able to get in - these netforum people are flaky -
sometimes I can get it, sometimes not - maybe my fault, Omph says
it's still there ...

http://sandridersdunearchive.netforums. ... d84195877a

>>edit<<

it's still there - and fuck, did we get spammed ....
If I was any kind of a forum admin, I'd clean that up; but I learned all I know about adminning from Byron Merritt, so ...


Chig- firefox spelchek don't like "adminning" - wouldn't that be the correct form, if we be makin' up words an' shit ?
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008


Return to “˲”