Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

I have always wondered how you pronounce the name of this culture. Anyone have any insight?

Well, welcome to the boards - and I plan to soon (ish) have some audio posted of Frank Herbert reading sections of the books, so that should answer your question definitively.

I've always pronounced it "tleel-ax" and "tleel-ax-oo", but I can't remember how FH does it, he may have the first vowels pronounced as an "I" rather than an "E" like I do.

Thanks! I have always wondered and just had never asked before. The audio clips would be really interesting to hear as well.

Here. You can't be expected to be taken seriously on pronunciations if you don't know this page:

http://www.usul.net/books/sounds.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TL is an affricate (a combination of a stop with a fricative), combining a T and a "lateral fricative", which is an L with a lot of breath making noise around both sides of the tongue. The sound is common in many American Indian languages, including Nahuatl, or Aztec. To a native English ear, it sounds very similar to KL, a fact used by Marc Okrand when he made the Klingon language.

EI is pronounced by FH like the EY in "they".

The A is as in American "cat", and the U as in "root".

What FH says in the sound file sounds very similar to "clay-LAX-oo".

HTH

I didn't know about him pronouncing the EI as "eh" - is that from a language I'm not familiar with, or was he just winging it? I generally defer to the german pronunciation whenever I see EI or IE, but obviously in this case I was pronouncing it the opposite of the german way.

Well, when I see "eh" I generally think of it as a "short e" or "European e", like in French or like Am. "red pest", but I can understand a Canadian going a bit awry, eh.

EI is actually a fairly accurate use of the letters to represent the diphthong in words like "they" (which for me rhymes with "say" but not "said"), a mid front vowel followed by a high-front glide (I or Y). FH was being fairly traditional in his usage here, actually. (The way he says "Chani", he should have spelled it "Cheini" or even Tsheini. )


Edit, after rereading your post:

The German EI was historically pronounced the same, but German underwent the same kind of vowel-raising sound change that English did ("Great Vowel Shift"). Compare how we now say "eye" or "height" (phonetically = A+I).

I didn't know that my "eh" was different from yours!

With German, I typically pronounce whichever letter is second. EI sounds like the letter I, and IE sounds like E.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:With German, I typically pronounce whichever letter is second. EI sounds like the letter I, and IE sounds like E.

Actually, that IS a great mnemonic for them!

SandChigger wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:With German, I typically pronounce whichever letter is second. EI sounds like the letter I, and IE sounds like E.

Actually, that IS a great mnemonic for them!

It's what my german teachers told me to do.

("German" teachers as in "German language" or "Hoy, I'm Bruno and I'm from Chermany"? )

German teachers as in people from germany teaching german to highschool students.

My pronunciation would be like "Try racks!" and "Try rack, Sue!" with the obvious use of L rather than R.

http://www.usul.net/books/audio/tleilaxu.wav" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you listen closely, it almost sounds like he is saying "Clay-LAX-soo".

(TL sounds like KL to the native English ear.)

that's funny, in one of my old online names I spelled it wrong by mistake, adding an extra x "tleilatXu", and I realized later that it came from the Basque language(I don't speak it but I know a few words)
I knew that U would come out more as the French "ou"

To cut a long story sort the "x" in Basque is pronounced "tch", so I kinda mixed the two concepts in one unconsciously, and ending up pronouncing it correctly, which is one of the first times I actually "imagine" the pronunciation of a written and made up word

how I hear it in my headwhen reading (might not be correct by linguistic standard, just what I hear)

leyelax
lay-laxe-sue


I also prefer:

Har-ko-nen to harka-nens.

Cha-knee.. to Chain-ee

gan-eh-ma ... to ga - knee - ma

trang wrote: I also prefer:

Har-ko-nen to harka-nens.

Yup.

Cha-knee.. to Chain-ee

I go with door number two personally.

gan-eh-ma ... to ga - knee - ma

Yup. Same here.

Don't ask why, but I keep wanting to put a 'TH' sound in it....so something along the lines of...
"THAY- Laxe" and "Thay - Laxe-U"

I know it's wrong but for some reason, just can't get it out of my head that "Th" sound.

You're probably not alone in that, because "Theilaxu" is a spelling error I've seen here and there. (Gets about 1,200 Ghits.)

The two sounds are somewhat similar in articulation, because with TH you have your tongue between or almost touching your teeth and air flowing between them. With TL your tongue is touching the back of your upper teeth (or the little ridge on the roof of your mouth right behind them) and spread out like when you say L; your breath flows around the sides of your tongue after the initial release of the T.

I always wanted to pronounce it Tie-lax-oo. I know thats wrong. I pronounce Tleilaxu as T-leil-ax-oo and T-leil-ax.

Tey - lax

Teh - lax - oo

Well, I know the proper way to pronounce it thanks to recordings of FH is something like "clay-lax-oo". But when I read it as "tleyel-ax-oo" (eye like eye in the middle of there, and putting an L after a T is no problem for my tongue anyways).