Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

inhuien wrote:hmmm, so the Bene Tleilax Kwisatz Haderach pre-dated Paul (an assumption I know but a safe one). I must re-read these wonderful books, my recall was that this disclosure happen in CH:D.

Dune Messiah, Chapter 1

Paul is about 30-y-o at this point so I think it would be very possibly to have been done in his time.

Redstar wrote:You guys just take Dune discussion too seriously.

We'll put that on your tombstone.

Freakzilla wrote:

inhuien wrote:hmmm, so the Bene Tleilax Kwisatz Haderach pre-dated Paul (an assumption I know but a safe one). I must re-read these wonderful books, my recall was that this disclosure happen in CH:D.

Dune Messiah, Chapter 1

Paul is about 30-y-o at this point so I think it would be very possibly to have been done in his time.

Paul age wasn't really the point I was thinking of, where my muse was taking was that it was 12ish years since he took the Water of Life. Do you think the Bene Tleilax could have created and matured the correct specimen to be a successful Kwisatz Haderach in that timescale. Which Kwisatz Haderach was first?

inhuien wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

inhuien wrote:hmmm, so the Bene Tleilax Kwisatz Haderach pre-dated Paul (an assumption I know but a safe one). I must re-read these wonderful books, my recall was that this disclosure happen in CH:D.

Dune Messiah, Chapter 1

Paul is about 30-y-o at this point so I think it would be very possibly to have been done in his time.

Paul age wasn't really the point I was thinking of, where my muse was taking was that it was 12ish years since he took the Water of Life. Do you think the Bene Tleilax could have created and matured the correct specimen to be a successful Kwisatz Haderach in that timescale.

Leto II, Ghanima and Alia did it before birth, so I think genetics, not experience is the key.

I think it may have been mentioned in one of the latter books that the BT offered to make a KH for the BG, but they wanted to do it the "natural" way.

Which Kwisatz Haderach was first?

Again... the BT KH was a tool to defeat the BG KH. That would lead me to believe the BG KH came first. If the BG hadn't lost control of theirs, the BT wouldn't have needed one.

Freakzilla wrote:Again...

Okay okay I get it, it just takes awhile sometime.

Freakzilla wrote:

Redstar wrote:You guys just take Dune discussion too seriously.

We'll put that on your tombstone.

I blame the preeqs for all your bad humours.


How do you imagine they would have wanted the two KHs to go up against each other? A game of prescient pyramid chess sounds extremely unlikely, so what does one KH have as advantage over another?

Redstar wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

Redstar wrote:You guys just take Dune discussion too seriously.

We'll put that on your tombstone.

I blame the preeqs for all your bad humours.


How do you imagine they would have wanted the two KHs to go up against each other? A game of prescient pyramid chess sounds extremely unlikely, so what does one KH have as advantage over another?

Maybe just to give the BT insight into what a KH would be planning, knowledge of what one was capable of, and someone to help them scheme against one.

They may have intended their KH to be a tool, rather than an actual direct weapon.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Redstar wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

Redstar wrote:You guys just take Dune discussion too seriously.

We'll put that on your tombstone.

I blame the preeqs for all your bad humours.


How do you imagine they would have wanted the two KHs to go up against each other? A game of prescient pyramid chess sounds extremely unlikely, so what does one KH have as advantage over another?

Maybe just to give the BT insight into what a KH would be planning, knowledge of what one was capable of, and someone to help them scheme against one.

They may have intended their KH to be a tool, rather than an actual direct weapon.

That doesn't sound like something KJA would want to write...

Redstar wrote:

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Redstar wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

Redstar wrote:You guys just take Dune discussion too seriously.

We'll put that on your tombstone.

I blame the preeqs for all your bad humours.


How do you imagine they would have wanted the two KHs to go up against each other? A game of prescient pyramid chess sounds extremely unlikely, so what does one KH have as advantage over another?

Maybe just to give the BT insight into what a KH would be planning, knowledge of what one was capable of, and someone to help them scheme against one.

They may have intended their KH to be a tool, rather than an actual direct weapon.

That doesn't sound like something KJA would want to write...

Nope. We'll find out he was actually an uber-KH with the force, and he was meant to fight paul with super powers.

say, the jacket didn't put its grubby little paws on my dwarf, did it ?

Redstar wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

Redstar wrote:You guys just take Dune discussion too seriously.

We'll put that on your tombstone.

I blame the preeqs for all your bad humours.


How do you imagine they would have wanted the two KHs to go up against each other? A game of prescient pyramid chess sounds extremely unlikely, so what does one KH have as advantage over another?

They wouldn't have been pitted against each other, the BT KH was made so as to find the weakness in Paul.

(Unless, are you talking about what the preeqs would write? )

A Thing of Eternity wrote:

Redstar wrote:

Freakzilla wrote:

Redstar wrote:You guys just take Dune discussion too seriously.

We'll put that on your tombstone.

I blame the preeqs for all your bad humours.


How do you imagine they would have wanted the two KHs to go up against each other? A game of prescient pyramid chess sounds extremely unlikely, so what does one KH have as advantage over another?

Maybe just to give the BT insight into what a KH would be planning, knowledge of what one was capable of, and someone to help them scheme against one.

They may have intended their KH to be a tool, rather than an actual direct weapon.

Exactly, he was kind of a virtual Paul that they used to find a way to defeat him.

So all they had to do was make Paul kill himself.