Mandy wrote:Did Bijaz have metal eyes? I don't remember anything about every ghola having metal eyes.
Bijaz was a Ghola, how did I miss that. There's a quote about them coming out the same tank, or is my recall polluted be the mini?
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Mandy wrote:Did Bijaz have metal eyes? I don't remember anything about every ghola having metal eyes.
SandRider wrote:I think he's cute.
looks like the current Governor of Texas
inhuien wrote:Mandy wrote:Did Bijaz have metal eyes? I don't remember anything about every ghola having metal eyes.
Bijaz was a Ghola, how did I miss that. There's a quote about them coming out the same tank, or is my recall polluted be the mini?
A Tleilaxu toy, learned and alert, Paul thought. The Bene Tleilax never threw away something this valuable. He turned, studied the dwarf. Round melange eyes returned his stare.
Mandy wrote:...but I think it makes more sense that the Tleilax wanted him to have metal eyes because they'd make everyone around him uneasy.
inhuien wrote:There's a quote about them coming out the same tank, or is my recall polluted be the mini?
Mandy wrote:Bijaz tells Hayt they are like brothers, and that they came out of the same tank.
inhuien wrote:Mandy wrote:Bijaz tells Hayt they are like brothers, and that they came out of the same tank.
That's the one, thanks Mandy. But just because they were both decanted from the same tank does that mean that they're both Ghola. The vile, dirty, stupid Tleilax used their Tank for more that purely Ghola production,
inhuien wrote:Mandy wrote:Bijaz tells Hayt they are like brothers, and that they came out of the same tank.
That's the one, thanks Mandy. But just because they were both decanted from the same tank does that mean that they're both Ghola. The vile, dirty, stupid Tleilax used their Tank for more that purely Ghola production,
Frank Herbert in Dune Messiah wrote:"Scytale is dead," Paul said.
"But I am not and the plan is not," Bijaz said. "By the tank in which I grew! It can be done! I shall have my pasts – all of them. It needs only the right trigger."
"Trigger?" Paul asked.
"The compulsion to kill you," Idaho said, rage thick in his voice. "Mentat computation: They found that I thought of you as the son I never had. Rather than slay you, the true Duncan Idaho would take over the ghola body. But… it might have failed. Tell me, dwarf, if your plan had failed, if I'd killed him, what then?"
Frank Herbert in Dune Messiah wrote:"Bijaz, what do you fear?" Paul asked.
"I fear the spirit seeking me now," Bijaz muttered. Perspiration stood out on his forehead. His cheeks twitched. "I fear the one who thinks not and will have no body except mine – and that one gone back into itself! I fear the things I see and the things I do not see."
This dwarf does possess the power of prescience, Paul thought. Bijaz shared the terrifying oracle. Did he share the oracle's fate, as well? How potent was the dwarf's power? Did he have the little prescience of those who dabbled in the Dune Tarot? Or was it something greater? How much had he seen?
lotek wrote:Would coming from a tank mean you're something else than a ghola?
inhuien wrote:However he was far from being an ordinary Ghola, If such a thing can be said to exist.Frank Herbert in Dune Messiah wrote:"Bijaz, what do you fear?" Paul asked.
"I fear the spirit seeking me now," Bijaz muttered. Perspiration stood out on his forehead. His cheeks twitched. "I fear the one who thinks not and will have no body except mine – and that one gone back into itself! I fear the things I see and the things I do not see."
This dwarf does possess the power of prescience, Paul thought. Bijaz shared the terrifying oracle. Did he share the oracle's fate, as well? How potent was the dwarf's power? Did he have the little prescience of those who dabbled in the Dune Tarot? Or was it something greater? How much had he seen?
inhuien wrote:No I don't think that's supported by the interpretation of Bijaz being a Ghola, also the Bene Tleilax killed their KH.
Why do you think he was a failed KH, the only use of that term referred to the Count Hasimir Fenring.
inhuien wrote:lotek wrote:Would coming from a tank mean you're something else than a ghola?
Tanks were used to create their entire plethora of tailored genetic products from Face Dancers to Gholas to twisted Mentats to more tanks, at least that has always been my understanding.
That said Bijaz is a Ghola.
Redstar wrote:Well I was just joking, but you're mistaken that the Tleilax killed their KH... Their KH killed himself. I'm sure that KH was also labeled "failed", though I don't have quotes like you guys do.
Bijaz' dialogue in that quote leans more towards general prescience, but I also got a sense he was fearing his own personality overtaking him akin to possession, or actual OM possession. That sounds to me like what the Tleilaxu KH feared and what ultimately led to his suicide.
inhuien wrote:Redstar wrote:Well I was just joking, but you're mistaken that the Tleilax killed their KH... Their KH killed himself. I'm sure that KH was also labeled "failed", though I don't have quotes like you guys do.
Bijaz' dialogue in that quote leans more towards general prescience, but I also got a sense he was fearing his own personality overtaking him akin to possession, or actual OM possession. That sounds to me like what the Tleilaxu KH feared and what ultimately led to his suicide.
Sorry I didn't realise that you were joking, how could I. And don't you think that the spirit that Bijaz feared is his original self memories, were he any kind of KH Paul would know that.
inhuien wrote:Mandy wrote:Bijaz tells Hayt they are like brothers, and that they came out of the same tank.
That's the one, thanks Mandy. But just because they were both decanted from the same tank does that mean that they're both Ghola. The vile, dirty, stupid Tleilax used their Tank for more that purely Ghola production,
Mandy wrote:inhuien wrote:Mandy wrote:Bijaz tells Hayt they are like brothers, and that they came out of the same tank.
That's the one, thanks Mandy. But just because they were both decanted from the same tank does that mean that they're both Ghola. The vile, dirty, stupid Tleilax used their Tank for more that purely Ghola production,
Sligs! lol
Well, when I mentioned Bijaz's eyes I was only thinking of the BT being able to grow real eyes in a tank.. but one of the differences between Hayt and Bijaz (I assume) is that Hayt was repaired and reanimated in the tank, and Bijaz was probably grown there from the start. So all these times I've read DM I always assumed that the BT just didn't have the tech to repair Hayt's eyes, but this time it occurred to me that the BT probably did it on purpose.
When reading this series, like most everyone else, I usually pick up on something different each time. Probably why it never gets old. Also, until about 5 yrs ago, I'd never discussed Dune with anyone (never had a computer before that!), so things that others might be tired of talking about are still new to me
"But I am not and the plan is not," Bijaz said. "By the tank in which I grew! It can be done! I shall have my pasts – all of them. It needs only the right trigger."
Mandy wrote:I don't know if they'd mastered cloning yet, but I don't think the books ever say that they hadn't. They did collect skin cells.. remember Skytale's capsule? They wouldn't have collected all those cells without gholas in mind. If you think about it, they probably cloned from cells first, in the real world scientists have successfully cloned sheep, and cats.
Mandy wrote:Actually scientists cloned a tadpole in 1952.
Mandy wrote:Don't split the thread.. it could still float back around to Hayt.
1952: Briggs and King cloned tadpoles
Robert Briggs and Thomas King cloned northern leopard frog using nuclear transfer.
The purpose of the experiment was to study the activation and deactivation of genes during cell development. Using a glass pipette with a width between the cell’s nucleus and the cell’s width, King removed the nucleus from a blastula cell, an embryo cell during the period in which the embryo is only about 8 – 16 thousand cells. The outer part of the cell was crushed and broke away as the nucleus is sucked into the pipette. A glass needle was then used to remove the egg’s own nucleus, and was replace with the nucleus of the blastula cell. Finally, Briggs and King cloned 27 tadpoles from 104 nuclear transfers. Those few surviving tadpoles cloned from differentiated cells were abnormal, leading Briggs and King to believe that adult differentiated cells cannot be used to clone an organism.