Re: Hayt
Posted: 18 Sep 2010 03:49
Looks like we got another one. Let the games begin, yeah?
DUNE DISCUSSION FORUM FOR ORTHODOX HERBERTARIANS
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Ooh, you speak Farsi, too. That's so hawt.Idwal Brugh wrote:Please provide your reference as that is wholly false. Both Farsi and English are indo-european languages and have more in common with each other than Farsi does with Arabic. Many cognates exist.a well-known and often-cited example is that the word for 'bad' in modern Persian sounds very close to the English word "bad", although there is no relation between the two words whatsoever),
Right. Sorry I missed that.A Thing of Eternity wrote:Don't forget option D, which I mentioned - that the BT deliberately chose a word from a dead language that they knew only people with OM would recognise.
That was not very polite, was it? Besides, I don't see any immediate contradiction between what you quoted and your own words.Idwal Brugh wrote:Are you that lacking in imagination? He DOES have command of full OM, and that would provide access to nearly every human language.I, too, have always assumed that the significance of the name "Hayt" lies in the fact that it sounds like "hate" (otherwise Paul's comment makes little sense).
I myself do not know Farsi (I've only attended Andrey Zaliznyak's seminar on Old Persian a few years ago; we were reading the Behistun inscription ), but the example I provided is indeed often cited (which, of course, is not proof enough that is is correct), including a work by Zaliznyak himself, whose authority I trust. I learned of this example at my first year of study in the university, at the introductory course to Linguistics (I suppose you'd call it General Linguistics 101, eh? )Idwal Brugh wrote:Please provide your reference as that is wholly false. Both Farsi and English are indo-european languages and have more in common with each other than Farsi does with Arabic. Many cognates exist.a well-known and often-cited example is that the word for 'bad' in modern Persian sounds very close to the English word "bad", although there is no relation between the two words whatsoever),
bad
c.1200, a mystery word with no apparent relatives in other languages.* Possibly from O.E. derogatory term bæddel and its dim. bædling "effeminate man, hermaphrodite, pederast," probably related to bædan "to defile." Originally "defective, inferior;" sense of "evil, morally depraved" is first recorded c.1300. A rare word before 1400, and evil was more common in this sense until c.1700. Comparable words in the other I.E. languages tend to have grown from descriptions of specific qualities, such as "ugly," "defective," "weak," "faithless," "impudent," "crooked," "filthy" (e.g. Gk. kakos , probably from the word for "excrement;" Rus. plochoj , related to O.C.S. plachu "wavering, timid;" Pers. gast , O.Pers. gasta- , related to gand "stench;" Ger. schlecht , originally "level, straight, smooth," whence "simple, ordinary," then "bad"). Comparative and superlative forms badder, baddest were common 14c.-18c. and used as recently as Defoe (but not by Shakespeare), but yielded to comp. worse and superl. worst (which had belonged to evil and ill ). In U.S. place names, sometimes translating native terms meaning "supernaturally dangerous." Ironic use as a word of approval is said to be at least since 1890s orally, originally in Black Eng., emerging in print 1928 in a jazz context. It might have emerged from the ambivalence of expressions like bad nigger , used as a term of reproach by whites, but among blacks sometimes representing one who stood up to injustice, but in the U.S. West bad man also had a certain ambivalence:*Farsi has bad in more or less the same sense as the English word, but this is regarded by linguists as a coincidence. The forms of the words diverge as they are traced back in time (Farsi bad comes from M.Pers. vat ), and such accidental convergences exist across many languages, given the vast number of words in each and the limited range of sounds humans can make to signify them. Among other coincidental matches with English are Korean mani "many," Chinese pei "pay," Nahuatl (Aztecan) huel "well," Maya hol "hole.""These are the men who do most of the killing in frontier communities, yet it is a noteworthy fact that the men who are killed generally deserve their fate." [Farmer & Henley]
He’s talking about the Eyes of Ibad there but, again, it’s a recurring theme, especially since Hayt’s eyes are described as “featureless” and “blank.” He’s a tool of the conspiracy, and as such has a specific purpose, a single goal (of sorts) to achieve, and I think the eyes are meant to represent that, in part.FH wrote in DM:
“Sacred! As with all things sacred, it gives with one hand and takes with the
other. It extends life and allows the adept to foresee his future, but it ties
him to a cruel addiction and marks his eyes as yours are marked: total blue
without any white. Your eyes, your organs of sight, become one thing without
contrast, a single view.”
She studied his artificial eyes, wondering what they saw. Observed closely,Shakkad the Wise wrote:...especially since Hayt’s eyes are described as “featureless” and “blank.”
I should have taken out "featureless," I think I was thinking about the way that Hayt's expression is often referred to as passive (and also that his eyes are referred to as lacking human expression), and stream of consciousness thinking took care of the rest.FH in DM wrote:
"The blank surfaces of the ghola's eyes came up to center on Paul with a
pressing intensity. "Yes!""