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Describe the Bene Tleilax!

Posted: 13 Mar 2009 19:40
by SwordMaster
Short intro to the BT at the start of HoD if you have a minute.

It would be a huge help if you took a moment to try that for me, I need as many real Dune people to post their intro as possible, or at least their place in the Dune universe, at the start of HoD

... no thoughts of non FH related garbage, as if I need to ask....

Thank you
HoD =
Heretics of Dune
Author Frank Herbert

Re: Discribe the BT!

Posted: 15 Mar 2009 19:32
by SwordMaster
SwordMaster wrote:Short intro to the BT at the start of HoD if you have a minute.

It would be a huge help if you took a moment to try that for me, I need as many real Dune people to post their intro as possible, or at least their place in the Dune universe, at the start of HoD

... no thoughts of non FH related garbage, as if I need to ask....

Thank you
HoD =
Heretics of Dune
Author Frank Herbert


*sound of crickets*

Posted: 17 Mar 2009 14:45
by SwordMaster
well fuck, this has not worked as well as I had hoped. Il try it this way. Here is my introduction. Maybe comment on how accurate you think it is...

Since the fall of the God Emperor, few groups were able to maintain influence within the core empire. 1 of these groups was the BT who through extreme use of genetic technology and bio engineering they maintain massive influence throughout the empire. The BT is shrouded with mystery, and secrecy. They maintain power by planting face dancer agents, into high levels of power, usually taking the appearance of a current administrator and replacing them in the role in order to maintain influence throughout the empire.

Comments?

Posted: 17 Mar 2009 16:38
by moreh_yeladim
SwordMaster wrote:well fuck, this has not worked as well as I had hoped. Il try it this way. Here is my introduction. Maybe comment on how accurate you think it is...

Since the fall of the God Emperor, few groups were able to maintain influence within the core empire. 1 of these groups was the BT who through extreme use of genetic technology and bio engineering they maintain massive influence throughout the empire. The BT is shrouded with mystery, and secrecy. They maintain power by planting face dancer agents, into high levels of power, usually taking the appearance of a current administrator and replacing them in the role in order to maintain influence throughout the empire.

Comments?

Also, they grow spice.

Posted: 17 Mar 2009 21:00
by SwordMaster
moreh_yeladim wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:well fuck, this has not worked as well as I had hoped. Il try it this way. Here is my introduction. Maybe comment on how accurate you think it is...

Since the fall of the God Emperor, few groups were able to maintain influence within the core empire. 1 of these groups was the BT who through extreme use of genetic technology and bio engineering they maintain massive influence throughout the empire. The BT is shrouded with mystery, and secrecy. They maintain power by planting face dancer agents, into high levels of power, usually taking the appearance of a current administrator and replacing them in the role in order to maintain influence throughout the empire.

Comments?

Also, they grow spice.


Were the BT able to grow synthetic spice at the start of HoD?

Posted: 17 Mar 2009 21:18
by Freakzilla
There is now such thing as "synthetic spice". The Bene Tleilax produced melange. That is KJA poison.

You may want to mention their intentional false image of being stupid, vile and dirty as well as their belief in a long awaited ascendancy.

Posted: 17 Mar 2009 23:56
by Schu
Freakzilla wrote:"synthetic spice"


Well, technically it still is synthetic spice if it isn't made by a worm and all that jazz, but yeah, the Amtal stuff was a bunch of crap.

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 08:43
by inhuien
^^^Then it's petty fucking strange that F. Herbert never calls it that, I guess that was his bad.

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 10:11
by inhuien
Ya, all those exploding Tanks must have slipped their minds.

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 10:56
by Freakzilla
So if I made gasoline by any other means than putting pressure on hydrocarbons for millions of years, then distiling it, it's artificial, huh?

I say, if it runs my car it's gasoline.

I had always imagined that they used a bit of "real spice" to make theirs in the tanks. So, would that be real?

If it's chemical and physical properties are the same, who cares what the process is?

I don't think this is a mistake on FH's part, what the BT were producing was real spice.

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 14:01
by SandChigger
Geez.

If it's not produced by the original, natural process it's artificial or man-made. I don't have a problem referring to BT tank-produced spice as either of those because it wasn't produced in a spice-blow-etc process.

Synthetic seems to bring even more nuance baggage with it, so yeah, it's best avoided.

My real problem with Hackson and Bobo is the implication that there is a difference, detectable by people like Sheeana and ghola Pauly, between the tank spice and "real" spice. That's the real bullshit. :)

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 14:06
by moreh_yeladim
Tank spice : worm spice :: factory-made vanillin : bean vanilla

It's the same chemical compound in the same physical form, but most likely with fewer impurities.

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 14:18
by Hunchback Jack
I would mention that their higher ranks have gained a weak immortality through the use of gholas.

Edited to add: "weak" isn't the right word, but I wanted to avoid "pseudo-" or "quasi-".

HBJ

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 14:27
by Freakzilla
I recently bought some "artificial vinilla extract". I'll never do that again.

I don't like artificial sweeteners or sugar substitutes, either.

Artificial vinilla and artificial sweeteners are NOT the same as the real thing, they are chemically and physically different.

I would accept man-made spice, but it's still spice.

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 15:22
by SandChigger
Hey, I don't usually like artificial sweeteners or creamers or that kind of stuff, either. Because they aren't the same or taste the same, like you say.

But that's a fact of those products/substances, and an indictment of our technology or processes for producing or synthesizing (?!) them, not a fact about the basic meaning of the word "artificial". ;)

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 17:02
by Tio_Holtzmann
I think there should be some mention of the Great Belief and that they're Zensufi, as well as the fact they're the sole producers of gholas.


moreh_yeladim wrote:Tank spice : worm spice :: factory-made vanillin : bean vanilla

It's the same chemical compound in the same physical form, but most likely with fewer impurities.J

I can't remember, and unfortunately I don't have access to my books, but is there ever a mention of a way the Imperium rates the potency of melange?

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 18:29
by SandChigger
If you mean explicitly spelled out by FH, not that I remember, but maybe Freak does. :)

There is this intriguing little passage, however (emphasis added):

"There are twenty-eight different words for melange in common Galach. They describe it by its intended use, by its dilution, by its age, by whether it came through honest purchase, through theft or conquest, whether it was the dower gift for a male or for a female, and in many other ways is it named. What do you make of this, Moneo?"

That's a millennium and a half before the beginning of HoD, of course. ;)

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 18:40
by SwordMaster
Tio_Holtzmann wrote:I think there should be some mention of the Great Belief


That was secret and unknown by the anyone at the start of HoD.

The point about ghola longevity is well taken though

Can we all agree then to man-made spice to discribe the spice the BT produced? and we're they infact producing it at the start of HoD?

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 18:41
by SwordMaster
SandChigger wrote:Hey, I don't usually like artificial sweeteners or creamers or that kind of stuff, either. Because they aren't the same or taste the same, like you say.

But that's a fact of those products/substances, and an indictment of our technology or processes for producing or synthesizing (?!) them, not a fact about the basic meaning of the word "artificial". ;)


That was why I originally used the word synthetic... the KJA bullshit is not welcome in this thread... lol :(

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 19:33
by Freakzilla
Tio_Holtzmann wrote:I can't remember, and unfortunately I don't have access to my books, but is there ever a mention of a way the Imperium rates the potency of melange?


There were more than a few hundred different words for Melange in Galach, some I think depended on it's potency. They probably had minorities cooking it with baking soda and smoking it in the ghettos, but there is no mention of any Imperial rating.

The forms I know of are only the pure refined spice and spice liquor, which there is only mention of the BG using.

But you know it's going to get cut the more hands it passes through.

Posted: 18 Mar 2009 19:36
by Freakzilla
I like man made better than synthetic, that reminds me of synthetic motor oil, which isn't the same.

A synthetic human (android) wouldn't be human, but a clone/ghola would be. That's maybe the best analogy I can think of in this case.

Posted: 19 Mar 2009 12:07
by SwordMaster
Freakzilla wrote:I like man made better than synthetic, that reminds me of synthetic motor oil, which isn't the same.

A synthetic human (android) wouldn't be human, but a clone/ghola would be. That's maybe the best analogy I can think of in this case.


I like that one it works for me.

Spice crack. Interesting idea as well. If there was an herbal spice soaked leaf that you could smoke, Id smoke it.

Posted: 19 Mar 2009 12:17
by Freakzilla
You can smoke anything, trust me. :wink:

Posted: 24 Mar 2009 20:06
by moreh_yeladim
Freakzilla wrote:I recently bought some "artificial vinilla extract". I'll never do that again.

I don't like artificial sweeteners or sugar substitutes, either.

Artificial vinilla and artificial sweeteners are NOT the same as the real thing, they are chemically and physically different.

I would accept man-made spice, but it's still spice.

Read, fool! The difference between the "synthetic" and the "real thing" is in the impurities!

Posted: 24 Mar 2009 21:16
by Schu
moreh_yeladim wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I recently bought some "artificial vinilla extract". I'll never do that again.

I don't like artificial sweeteners or sugar substitutes, either.

Artificial vinilla and artificial sweeteners are NOT the same as the real thing, they are chemically and physically different.

I would accept man-made spice, but it's still spice.

Read, fool! The difference between the "synthetic" and the "real thing" is in the impurities!


Calling it impurities is subjective. From another point of view, Vanillin lacks several essential parts of vanilla essence. Hence, like Freak said, they are chemically and physically different.

er...

Fool.