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    A BG Scytale Ghola?

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    A BG Scytale Ghola?

    Postby Tleilax Master B » 13 Feb 2008 15:35

    Sorry, another repost from a different forum, but once again want to get these types of discussions archived here. During my last reading of Chapterhouse I noticed this passage when Odrade and Scytale are "bargaining" in her work room:

    "I am sick with what I have lost!" He heard fabric slither behind him and
    sensed Tamalane closer. How oppressive it was in this place!
    "Why is she behind me?"
    "I am the servant of my Sisters and she is here to observe us both."
    "You've taken some of my cells, haven't you? You're growing a replacement Scytale in your tanks!"
    "Of course we are. You don't think Sisters would let the last Master end here, do you?"
    "No ghola of me will do anything I would not!" And it will carry no nullentropy tube!
    "We know." But what is it we do not know?


    So is this a trick by Odrade or a genuine BG contingency plan? If its real, where did this Scytale ghola go? Seems to me it would be a wise thing to do if you want to preserve the knowledge of the last living Master; particularly since they have failed to ever retrieve any Tleilaxu OMs.

    Any thoughts? Would this have resurfaced had Frank written "Dune 7"?
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    Re: A BG Scytale Ghola?

    Postby Rakis » 17 Feb 2008 01:01

    Tleilax Master B wrote:Sorry, another repost from a different forum, but once again want to get these types of discussions archived here. During my last reading of Chapterhouse I noticed this passage when Odrade and Scytale are "bargaining" in her work room:

    "I am sick with what I have lost!" He heard fabric slither behind him and
    sensed Tamalane closer. How oppressive it was in this place!
    "Why is she behind me?"
    "I am the servant of my Sisters and she is here to observe us both."
    "You've taken some of my cells, haven't you? You're growing a replacement Scytale in your tanks!"
    "Of course we are. You don't think Sisters would let the last Master end here, do you?"
    "No ghola of me will do anything I would not!" And it will carry no nullentropy tube!
    "We know." But what is it we do not know?


    So is this a trick by Odrade or a genuine BG contingency plan? If its real, where did this Scytale ghola go? Seems to me it would be a wise thing to do if you want to preserve the knowledge of the last living Master; particularly since they have failed to ever retrieve any Tleilaxu OMs.

    Any thoughts? Would this have resurfaced had Frank written "Dune 7"?


    Yes i think so...in that point in the book, the BG still don't have worms and they want to know how to make spice with Axolt tanks, a secret that the Sisters might try to retrieve better from the clone if the BG raised him (or so the Powindahs think... :twisted: ) ...And if FH wrote Dune 7, Murbella would have need for a Master to counter the Master Face Dancers in a plot of some kind... :|
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    Postby Freakzilla » 17 Feb 2008 01:14

    I think any BG loyalty they fostered in him would quikly dissappear when his memories were restored. But at least they would be back to stalemate.
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    Postby Rakis » 20 Feb 2008 22:38

    Freakzilla wrote:I think any BG loyalty they fostered in him would quikly dissappear when his memories were restored. But at least they would be back to stalemate.


    Yes and i think he would be even more of a match this time, because he would have the memories of his clone to help him manipulate the HM :twisted: Can you imagine ? A Master with 10 to 15 years of education by the BG...Oh, how deadly...
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    Postby Freakzilla » 28 Mar 2008 11:10

    chanilover wrote:Scytale was a Face Dancer in Dune Messiah. How did he end up as a Master in the later books?


    CL, I split your post off into it's own topic since there are many different opinions on this.
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    Postby chanilover » 28 Mar 2008 11:26

    Cool.
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    Postby Tleilax Master B » 01 Apr 2008 14:05

    Mirzabah (at dunenovels) and I have been outlining our own sort of fanfiction on how we think Dune 7 would have gone. One of the scenarios we have been discussing is that the BG did in fact have a Scytale ghola as a contingency plan (since he is the last Master and would have much to reveal to them still). We were brainstorming a scenario in which the BG Scytale has his memories awakened and remembers that the original of himself has the nullentropy tube and what cells are there. It then becomes his goal to try to track down that original Scytale to insure that the BT are recreated from those cells of the Masters and the NFDs. We were even discussing a scenario in which his memories become accidentally reawakened, unbeknownst to the BG, and plays along waiting for the right opportunity to escape.
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    Postby Tleszer » 01 Apr 2008 15:22

    Tleilax Master B wrote:Mirzabah (at dunenovels) and I have been outlining our own sort of fanfiction on how we think Dune 7 would have gone. One of the scenarios we have been discussing is that the BG did in fact have a Scytale ghola as a contingency plan (since he is the last Master and would have much to reveal to them still). We were brainstorming a scenario in which the BG Scytale has his memories awakened and remembers that the original of himself has the nullentropy tube and what cells are there. It then becomes his goal to try to track down that original Scytale to insure that the BT are recreated from those cells of the Masters and the NFDs. We were even discussing a scenario in which his memories become accidentally reawakened, unbeknownst to the BG, and plays along waiting for the right opportunity to escape.


    Sounds interesting. So Scytale would try to recreate the BT... would you then have the BG also seek out the nullentropy tube to prevent the re-emergence of the Old Atreides? It would be interesting if Paul/Leto II gholas became a sort of new cloud-darkness that could unravel the GP.
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    Postby Omphalos » 01 Apr 2008 15:30

    Tleilax Master B wrote:Mirzabah (at dunenovels) and I have been outlining our own sort of fanfiction on how we think Dune 7 would have gone. One of the scenarios we have been discussing is that the BG did in fact have a Scytale ghola as a contingency plan (since he is the last Master and would have much to reveal to them still). We were brainstorming a scenario in which the BG Scytale has his memories awakened and remembers that the original of himself has the nullentropy tube and what cells are there. It then becomes his goal to try to track down that original Scytale to insure that the BT are recreated from those cells of the Masters and the NFDs. We were even discussing a scenario in which his memories become accidentally reawakened, unbeknownst to the BG, and plays along waiting for the right opportunity to escape.


    I cant wait to read this, B.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 01 Apr 2008 15:32

    Tleszer wrote:
    Tleilax Master B wrote:Mirzabah (at dunenovels) and I have been outlining our own sort of fanfiction on how we think Dune 7 would have gone. One of the scenarios we have been discussing is that the BG did in fact have a Scytale ghola as a contingency plan (since he is the last Master and would have much to reveal to them still). We were brainstorming a scenario in which the BG Scytale has his memories awakened and remembers that the original of himself has the nullentropy tube and what cells are there. It then becomes his goal to try to track down that original Scytale to insure that the BT are recreated from those cells of the Masters and the NFDs. We were even discussing a scenario in which his memories become accidentally reawakened, unbeknownst to the BG, and plays along waiting for the right opportunity to escape.


    Sounds interesting. So Scytale would try to recreate the BT...


    That was his plan all along in CH:D.

    would you then have the BG also seek out the nullentropy tube to prevent the re-emergence of the Old Atreides? It would be interesting if Paul/Leto II gholas became a sort of new cloud-darkness that could unravel the GP.


    Blasphemy! You can't "unravel" the Golden Path, once humanity Scattered it was done. You can never track down and kill every single person, nor can one person rule them all.

    Besides, Paul and Leto would be obsolete in a universe filled with people invisible to prescience. Teg is more powerfull than them, except that he doesn't have Other Memory.
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    Postby Tleilax Master B » 01 Apr 2008 15:45

    I think it would be interesting; now keeping in mind its just one of the side stories we have been trying to develop as part of our version of Dune 7. I so appreciate what Frank was able to do trying to weave stories within stories now that I have been trying to do some of this myself.

    We've been brainstorming some of the interesting dialogue that might occur between the original Scytale and the BG Scytale, were they to meet. And how they might work together--and the deception that could create :twisted:

    The hard part is figuring out how to get them to meet up. I mean, the original Scytale (w/tube) is on a no-ship somewhere way out in the Scattering randomly jumping around to avoid SFDs :?
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    Postby orald » 01 Apr 2008 16:45

    Freakzilla wrote:You can never track down and kill every single person, nor can one person rule them all.

    Except Sauron with the One Ring. :P
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    I wish I could have been with you that one last time.
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    Postby SandChigger » 01 Apr 2008 17:12

    "_______ (insert whatever) could unravel the GP."

    Where does this SHIT come from? :evil:

    Oh, yeah, right.

    Straight from the dual purpose intracranial shit production & storage areas of the two biggest Dune fans in the world. :roll:
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    Postby orald » 01 Apr 2008 17:15

    SandChigger wrote:Straight from the dual purpose intracranial shit production & storage areas of the two biggest Dune fans in the world. :roll:

    Who? L. Ron and Tom Cruise? :P
    In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

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    Postby Tleszer » 01 Apr 2008 18:00

    I figured that the only ones capable of changing the course of the Golden Path would be Paul or Leto if it was even possible (B & KJA seemed to think that the GP failed :cry: ) and that it would only be out of fear of this potential unknown that the BG would try to stop this.

    That said, I don't think FH would have gone in that direction. I'm no Dune-scholar, but that at least makes more sense to me as a possible plot for Dune 7 rather than the "novels" that Brian & KJA wrote.
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    Postby SandChigger » 01 Apr 2008 18:04

    B & KJA seem to think.

    The reality is probably much less exciting. ;)
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

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    Postby Rakis » 01 Apr 2008 20:47

    Tleilax Master B wrote:I think it would be interesting; now keeping in mind its just one of the side stories we have been trying to develop as part of our version of Dune 7. I so appreciate what Frank was able to do trying to weave stories within stories now that I have been trying to do some of this myself.

    We've been brainstorming some of the interesting dialogue that might occur between the original Scytale and the BG Scytale, were they to meet. And how they might work together--and the deception that could create :twisted:

    The hard part is figuring out how to get them to meet up. I mean, the original Scytale (w/tube) is on a no-ship somewhere way out in the Scattering randomly jumping around to avoid SFDs :?


    They meet in Bandalong, of course... :wink:

    But seriously, storywise, the No ship must comeback in the Old Empire somehow...I can't imagine a two story arc (No ship story and BG story) and never coming together at the end or something...
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    Postby Tleilax Master B » 02 Apr 2008 08:25

    Rakis wrote:
    Tleilax Master B wrote:I think it would be interesting; now keeping in mind its just one of the side stories we have been trying to develop as part of our version of Dune 7. I so appreciate what Frank was able to do trying to weave stories within stories now that I have been trying to do some of this myself.

    We've been brainstorming some of the interesting dialogue that might occur between the original Scytale and the BG Scytale, were they to meet. And how they might work together--and the deception that could create :twisted:

    The hard part is figuring out how to get them to meet up. I mean, the original Scytale (w/tube) is on a no-ship somewhere way out in the Scattering randomly jumping around to avoid SFDs :?


    They meet in Bandalong, of course... :wink:

    But seriously, storywise, the No ship must comeback in the Old Empire somehow...I can't imagine a two story arc (No ship story and BG story) and never coming together at the end or something...


    Yeah, I don't think Bandalong is too nice a place to visit at that point in the story :D
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    Postby orald » 02 Apr 2008 13:15

    Tleilax Master B wrote:Yeah, I don't think Bandalong is too nice a place to visit at that point in the story

    ZOMG they'll go back in time using Norma's super-powers FTW!1! :P
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    Postby Tleilax Master B » 02 Apr 2008 13:30

    orald wrote:
    Tleilax Master B wrote:Yeah, I don't think Bandalong is too nice a place to visit at that point in the story

    ZOMG they'll go back in time using Norma's super-powers FTW!1! :P


    There won't be no uber-powerful dwarf bitch in my fanfic :evil:
    Last edited by Tleilax Master B on 02 Apr 2008 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
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    Postby orald » 02 Apr 2008 15:46

    For shame. :cry:
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    Postby Rakis » 02 Apr 2008 22:19

    Tleilax Master B wrote:
    orald wrote:
    Tleilax Master B wrote:Yeah, I don't think Bandalong is too nice a place to visit at that point in the story

    ZOMG they'll go back in time using Norma's super-powers FTW!1! :P


    There won't be no uber-powerful dwarf bitch in my fanfic :evil:


    I say put the bitch in and kill her by an even more powerful being that will commit suicide right after... :twisted:

    If you don't do it for you, do it for FH... :wink:
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    Postby SandChigger » 02 Apr 2008 22:59

    Yeah, that's it!

    Put her in and have her killed by another Tleilaxu KH.

    They always self-destruct. :D
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    Postby Rakis » 02 Apr 2008 23:19

    Bring back Bijaz !!! Make him whistle at her, froze her up, and slap bitch until she falls... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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    Postby Tleilax Master B » 03 Apr 2008 08:35

    As Chanilover would say, I could have her "rogered half to death" by Duncan. :D

    Nah. Stupid little bitch. You won't be seeing any of her in my fanfic.....
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