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    Sheeana's Vision

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    Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Drunken Idaho » 01 Nov 2010 12:56

    So, there is the matter of Sheeana... Here's what we know:

      - She was intended to be the Bene Gesserit's resurrection of the saintly Siona, presumably to control the religious masses by demonstrating the return of the worms and her ability to control them. Perhaps this was going to be a way to persuade populations to fight the Honored Matres.

      - She sculpted an abstract statue from black plaz, which ended up being sort of a metaphor for her vision of a new empire that she could help to create using her worm-herding skills (IIRC).

      - Taraza had pretended to intend to have Duncan sexually-bond Sheeana, so that she could control the worms and he could control her (and Lucilla would bond Duncan, meaning the BG control him?). Something like that. Anyway, the point is, with Murbella out of the picture, It's reasonable to expect at least some sexual tension between Duncan and Sheeana. I don't see her playing a full-on love-interest role, but they certainly might end up bumping uglies.

      - She's creative: The sculpture, the vision, and she also stole the Monet painting. I certainly recall an emphasis on her creativity.

    There are plenty more I'm sure. Please fill in the gaps, everyone!

    But here are a couple questions to consider:

      - Where will Sheeana start this new empire, if at all? Will it be the same planet that Marty had picked out for them? A real test of their abilities?

      - Will Duncan have a major role in creating this new empire? Or will he have a challenge of his own somewhere else?

      - Will it be a God Empress of Dune type situation? If so, will her reign dwarf Leto II's the same way his reign dwarfed the empire of Muad'Dib? As cool as that sounds, I wonder if it's really necessary. Did Leto's message not stick? Or is there some greater cause than the Golden Path, for which Sheeana might make such a sacrifice?
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Freakzilla » 01 Nov 2010 19:26

    Drunken Idaho wrote:- She sculpted an abstract statue from black plaz, which ended up being sort of a metaphor for her vision of a new empire that she could help to create using her worm-herding skills (IIRC).


    You got all of that from that sculpture?

    But here are a couple questions to consider:

      - Where will Sheeana start this new empire, if at all? Will it be the same planet that Marty had picked out for them? A real test of their abilities?


    I think Duncan erasing the navagation memory took care of that.

    - Will it be a God Empress of Dune type situation? If so, will her reign dwarf Leto II's the same way his reign dwarfed the empire of Muad'Dib? As cool as that sounds, I wonder if it's really necessary. Did Leto's message not stick? Or is there some greater cause than the Golden Path, for which Sheeana might make such a sacrifice?


    I hoped so.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby SandRider » 01 Nov 2010 21:44

    I think a "New Empire" is out of the question, because to the scope of the Scattering ...

    back to the Spinrad comment for a moment :

    Knowing Frank's political philosophy, I once asked him how he could keep writing this royalist stuff. He told me he planned to end the series with a novel that would transition to a fictional universe of democratic rule


    the context of this was a question about Frank's intention for a Dune7 - as to when Frank said this to Spinrad, and in what context
    Spinrad recalls it, I don't know ...

    it seems to me that the seeds for this "Universe of Democratic Rule" were planted with the Scattering,
    which ensured that no one ruler would hold sway over all humanity again - simply because the location
    of all humanity would be unknowable ....

    and while I think the Bene Gesserit think they understood Leto's message, I think Drunken's right that
    they planned to use Sheena as the focal point of a New Empire, one under their control ... and that would in
    character with Frank's Sisters - they continually think and tell each other they learned this or that lesson, and
    then continue in the same path ....

    if it is the plan to elevate Sheena to godhead-ruler level, I think Duncan would be her greatest enemy ....
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby inhuien » 02 Nov 2010 08:44

    Drunken Idaho wrote: She sculpted an abstract statue from black plaz, which ended up being sort of a metaphor for her vision of a new empire that she could help to create using her worm-herding skills (IIRC).
    All I took away from the sculpture was that it's a nihilistic expression, if that's not a contradiction of terms, harkening back to the Freman Spice Orgy.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Drunken Idaho » 04 Nov 2010 14:44

    Freakzilla wrote:
    Drunken Idaho wrote:- She sculpted an abstract statue from black plaz, which ended up being sort of a metaphor for her vision of a new empire that she could help to create using her worm-herding skills (IIRC).


    You got all of that from that sculpture?


    I seem to recall her having a whole chapter towards the end of Chapterhouse, where she envisioned her potential future while working on that sculpture. It's not that it's what I got from the sculpture, but I seem to recall it being pretty clearly said that it was a metaphor for that. This is totally from memory, by the way. I can double check when I'm at home and get some quotes.

    Freakzilla wrote:
    But here are a couple questions to consider:

    [list]- Where will Sheeana start this new empire, if at all? Will it be the same planet that Marty had picked out for them? A real test of their abilities?


    I think Duncan erasing the navagation memory took care of that.



    I don't understand... Knowing as little as we do about D&M, how can we assume that they won't somehow end up in their hands again? For all we know, they could easily be manipulated into settling at a certain place.

    Are you hypothesizing that it was Duncan's erasing of the nav memory that made M&D no longer able to track them? If so, I'd be willing to explore it, but I'm pretty sure that D&M's Net powers are a little more metaphysical than the no-ship's nav memory. So sure, in fact, that I'm pretty sure I just misunderstood you... :oops:
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Freakzilla » 04 Nov 2010 14:54

    Drunken Idaho wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    But here are a couple questions to consider:

    [list]- Where will Sheeana start this new empire, if at all? Will it be the same planet that Marty had picked out for them? A real test of their abilities?


    I think Duncan erasing the navagation memory took care of that.



    I don't understand... Knowing as little as we do about D&M, how can we assume that they won't somehow end up in their hands again? For all we know, they could easily be manipulated into settling at a certain place.

    Are you hypothesizing that it was Duncan's erasing of the nav memory that made M&D no longer able to track them? If so, I'd be willing to explore it, but I'm pretty sure that D&M's Net powers are a little more metaphysical than the no-ship's nav memory. So sure, in fact, that I'm pretty sure I just misunderstood you... :oops:


    No, that's what happened in the book. As soon as Duncan dumped the navigation section of the no-ship computer memory, his vision of M&D dissappeared and they admitted he'd escaped.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Drunken Idaho » 04 Nov 2010 15:00

    SandRider wrote:I think a "New Empire" is out of the question, because to the scope of the Scattering ...


    I never meant a New Empire that encompasses all of humanity. This indeed would be impossible, and would also betray previous ideas in the books... What I meant was an independent empire somewhere off in the Scattering.

    SandRider wrote:back to the Spinrad comment for a moment :

    Knowing Frank's political philosophy, I once asked him how he could keep writing this royalist stuff. He told me he planned to end the series with a novel that would transition to a fictional universe of democratic rule


    the context of this was a question about Frank's intention for a Dune7 - as to when Frank said this to Spinrad, and in what context
    Spinrad recalls it, I don't know ...


    It's sad, but this quote is the probably only form of "the notes" we will ever have. So like that end scene with D&M, this quote should be kept forefront in our minds throughout this project. But you could be quite right that the stage as already been set for that, via the Scattering.

    SandRider wrote:if it is the plan to elevate Sheena to godhead-ruler level, I think Duncan would be her greatest enemy ....


    Excellent point, SR... But keep in mind that this plan was the original BG plan. Now, Sheeana has escaped the BG and is in charge of her own destiny. If she wormifies herself at all, I think it will be for a different reason than becoming another brutal despot. That lesson needs not to be taught anymore, thanks to Leto and his Scattering. Her motives will be different, and therefore Duncan may not oppose her the way he opposed Leto.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Drunken Idaho » 04 Nov 2010 15:06

    Freakzilla wrote:
    Drunken Idaho wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    But here are a couple questions to consider:

    [list]- Where will Sheeana start this new empire, if at all? Will it be the same planet that Marty had picked out for them? A real test of their abilities?


    I think Duncan erasing the navagation memory took care of that.



    I don't understand... Knowing as little as we do about D&M, how can we assume that they won't somehow end up in their hands again? For all we know, they could easily be manipulated into settling at a certain place.

    Are you hypothesizing that it was Duncan's erasing of the nav memory that made M&D no longer able to track them? If so, I'd be willing to explore it, but I'm pretty sure that D&M's Net powers are a little more metaphysical than the no-ship's nav memory. So sure, in fact, that I'm pretty sure I just misunderstood you... :oops:


    No, that's what happened in the book. As soon as Duncan dumped the navigation section of the no-ship computer memory, his vision of M&D dissappeared and they admitted he'd escaped.


    A fair observation, but I'm not convinced that it was specifically the dumping of the memory that permitted Duncan's escape. Something else happened. And I only say that out of gut instinct. I have no quotes to back it up, besides what we've already discussed on this forum.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Freakzilla » 04 Nov 2010 15:11

    Drunken Idaho wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    Drunken Idaho wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    But here are a couple questions to consider:

    [list]- Where will Sheeana start this new empire, if at all? Will it be the same planet that Marty had picked out for them? A real test of their abilities?


    I think Duncan erasing the navagation memory took care of that.



    I don't understand... Knowing as little as we do about D&M, how can we assume that they won't somehow end up in their hands again? For all we know, they could easily be manipulated into settling at a certain place.

    Are you hypothesizing that it was Duncan's erasing of the nav memory that made M&D no longer able to track them? If so, I'd be willing to explore it, but I'm pretty sure that D&M's Net powers are a little more metaphysical than the no-ship's nav memory. So sure, in fact, that I'm pretty sure I just misunderstood you... :oops:


    No, that's what happened in the book. As soon as Duncan dumped the navigation section of the no-ship computer memory, his vision of M&D dissappeared and they admitted he'd escaped.


    A fair observation, but I'm not convinced that it was specifically the dumping of the memory that permitted Duncan's escape. Something else happened. And I only say that out of gut instinct. I have no quotes to back it up, besides what we've already discussed on this forum.


    What exactly The Net is and how it is related to the no-ship computer memory and why only Duncan can see it was, I'm sad to say, taken to the grave with FH.

    :cry:

    I think it's an unknown function of the INM.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Drunken Idaho » 04 Nov 2010 15:37

    Freakzilla wrote:
    Drunken Idaho wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    Drunken Idaho wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    But here are a couple questions to consider:

    [list]- Where will Sheeana start this new empire, if at all? Will it be the same planet that Marty had picked out for them? A real test of their abilities?


    I think Duncan erasing the navagation memory took care of that.



    I don't understand... Knowing as little as we do about D&M, how can we assume that they won't somehow end up in their hands again? For all we know, they could easily be manipulated into settling at a certain place.

    Are you hypothesizing that it was Duncan's erasing of the nav memory that made M&D no longer able to track them? If so, I'd be willing to explore it, but I'm pretty sure that D&M's Net powers are a little more metaphysical than the no-ship's nav memory. So sure, in fact, that I'm pretty sure I just misunderstood you... :oops:


    No, that's what happened in the book. As soon as Duncan dumped the navigation section of the no-ship computer memory, his vision of M&D dissappeared and they admitted he'd escaped.


    A fair observation, but I'm not convinced that it was specifically the dumping of the memory that permitted Duncan's escape. Something else happened. And I only say that out of gut instinct. I have no quotes to back it up, besides what we've already discussed on this forum.


    What exactly The Net is and how it is related to the no-ship computer memory and why only Duncan can see it was, I'm sad to say, taken to the grave with FH.

    :cry:

    I think it's an unknown function of the INM.


    Very true. Very sad, but very true... The thing is, we can say the same about every single topic that comes up on this forum. But doing so won't bring us any closer to an OHDC. Now is the time for hypothesis, and you've got a decent one right there...

    I enjoy reading news stories on studies in quantum mechanics, and a while back I read about how quantum-level particles (quarks or something) were affected by events that had not yet happened. The experiment involved these particles streaming through a point where they would either split onto one path or another, but would later be manipulated (or left alone) at random by a human being. They found that the ones that had been randomly chosen to be manipulated had always taken the second path prior to being manipulated, while the particles that were left alone always took the other path beforehand.

    What you're getting at, Freak, reminded me of this story. It's not the same thing exactly, but the way M&D are somehow reliant on nav memory of places the no-ship hadn't even been yet, makes me think of quantum mechanics. If that's the case, one has to wonder how M&D found the ship in the first place...

    Or did they even? We're getting a little off-topic here, but do you remember the second time (I think there's a total of three times) that Duncan saw M&D? Daniel says, "Stop spying on us!" Which is either indicative that M&D aren't necessarily controlling when Duncan sees them, OR it's just Daniel's sense of humour. I'm leaning towards the latter. On that note, I think we need to come up with threads for each of the three M&D scenes, and analyze each of them.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Freakzilla » 04 Nov 2010 16:24

    Drunken Idaho wrote:Very true. Very sad, but very true... The thing is, we can say the same about every single topic that comes up on this forum. But doing so won't bring us any closer to an OHDC.


    Sorry, I forgot where I was.

    I'll try to expand on this more after work...
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby dogbone » 14 Dec 2011 00:35

    SandRider wrote:I think a "New Empire" is out of the question, because to the scope of the Scattering ...

    back to the Spinrad comment for a moment :

    Knowing Frank's political philosophy, I once asked him how he could keep writing this royalist stuff. He told me he planned to end the series with a novel that would transition to a fictional universe of democratic rule


    the context of this was a question about Frank's intention for a Dune7 - as to when Frank said this to Spinrad, and in what context
    Spinrad recalls it, I don't know ...

    it seems to me that the seeds for this "Universe of Democratic Rule" were planted with the Scattering,
    which ensured that no one ruler would hold sway over all humanity again - simply because the location
    of all humanity would be unknowable ....

    and while I think the Bene Gesserit think they understood Leto's message, I think Drunken's right that
    they planned to use Sheena as the focal point of a New Empire, one under their control ... and that would in
    character with Frank's Sisters - they continually think and tell each other they learned this or that lesson, and
    then continue in the same path ....

    if it is the plan to elevate Sheena to godhead-ruler level, I think Duncan would be her greatest enemy ....


    Ha! just saw this, now you're gonna think i'm stealing your idea.

    After a recent rereading of the last few books i sketched out a skeletal outline of book 7 (God Empress of Dune) for fun that revolves around this exact dynamic. Because it is largely about Sheeana i'll post it here but be warned, this shit's long so if it doesn't belong here let me know. All of this of course comes with a big fat IMHO:

    I envision book 7 revolving around Sheeana. For two books now she’s been groomed for purpose by Leto and now we will see it unfold.

    Thus far we’ve seen two basic Atreides molds, the benign (Leto, Paul, Jessica, Odrade, etc.) and the malignant (Alia). I think Sheeana tends toward the latter. There’s been some foreshadowing toward this end and I think it’s ultimately caused by her “Atreides way” (as opposed to Odrade’s “Atreides way”). I actually think the whole focus on Sheena’s art and Odrade’s revulsion to Void is a metaphor for their divergent philosophies on how to meet the threats to the BG. Where Odrade is more tightly controlled and disciplined (more in the vein of Paul), Sheeana is more hot blooded and wild, (more like Alia), and in this context, willing to do the one thing Odrade won’t (which I’ll return to). (Btw, though Sheeana is a descendant of Siona and Duncan and has Atreides gene markers, I’m not sure she’s ever referred to as a true “Atreides” in the sense that Odrade is, but do to her looming importance in the last 2 books I’ll make her an honorary one for the sake of this exercise.)

    “She talks to the worms and they spare her.”
    “They who spared me are not spared by me.” That was what she [Sheeana] had told Odrade.
    “And now Odrade knows what I must do. You cannot suppress the wild thing, Dar.” CD 399


    Along with a little dark foreshadowing, here, I think what Sheeana means to do is to “wormify” herself and the scale of her impact will be large (See CD 404 where Sheeana describes herself as an ultimate artist with the rare chance to have the unrestricted universe as her canvas).

    “Sandtrout inhabited this desert. Accept them as a new skin and she might follow the Tyrant’s path.
    Metamorphosis. The Divided God.
    She knew the lure.
    Do I dare?” CD 398


    I think she does this to facilitate her godhead for the Missionaria Protectiva to meet the looming threat to the BG/HM. But more importantly I think she does this to get Leto and his memories (this may also correlate with a cycle of one of Leto’s returns) which I interpret from the numerous references to Leto’s “awareness” in the sandworms throughout CD (as well as in GEOD by Leto himself) like the one below.

    “Was there a pearl of Leto II’s awareness in each of the new sandworms? Her Fremen ancestors insisted on it.” CD 399

    In fact, I think this makes more sense when the entire section is read together, placed in the context of Sheeana reflecting on her future plans.

    “She talks to the worms and they spare her.”
    “They who spared me are not spared by me.” That was what she had told Odrade.
    “And now Odrade knows what I must do. You cannot suppress the wild thing, Dar. I dare call you Dar now that you are within me.
    No response.
    Was there a pearl of Leto II’s awareness in each of the new sandworms? Her Fremen ancestors insisted on it.” CD 399


    (TANGENT) Btw – I think that threat is Ix (the ones that scattered) causing a second war against the thinking machines, a thing cultivated by Leto himself in GEOD. I think he did this by suppressing innovation yet tolerating and even quietly sanctioning Ixian devices that blurred the line between man and machine (journal, cart etc.) Their attention properly focused, he then sent them off into the universe to forget the lessons of the Butlerian Jihad after the famine. I think this was the “rot” Moneo saw already beginning to set in within Leto’s court after seeing how many people had illegal Ixian listening devices after the face dancer ambush. As well, I wonder about the future glimpse of machine violence Leto shows Siona in GEOD during her spice induced visions. Lastly, I think the poison that the MH are running from would be an ideal weapon of machines against humans.

    I think Sheeana’s downward spiral begins after doing what Odrade chose not to do in ingesting the spice (The place Sheeana will go that Odrade won’t follow). I can see the Bene Gesserit losing complete control of her then not unlike they lost control of Paul. Incidentally, I think Sheeana may also be the great trap of ‘noble purpose’ that Leto left for the Bene Gesserit. The Missionaria Protectiva, religious engineering, is the ultimate tool of “hidden manipulators.” By resorting to it (yet again), the Bene Gesserit unleash a force likely to sweep over everything (including themselves ala The Tyrant). In this context, Leto might have given Sheeana immunity to sexual bonding to prevent BH/HM from ever regaining hold of her (i'll admit that's shaky). As well, this may be the reason Leto created an all-female army, to bind them to her (See CD 401 where Sheeana speaks of how “religions of women flow deeper” and the potential of harnessing their latent power because “life renews itself in us.” Contrast with Leto discussion with Hwi of how women are better protectors of life for having experienced birth GEOD 239) In CD Sheeana repeatedly requests information from Duncan about Leto’s religion, and it seems to be a known fact that she plans to revive it.

    Ironically, in this context, I think Bellonda was right to fear the Atreides all along. She just had her eye on the wrong one.

    Continuing with the theory, I think both Taraza and Odrade likely greatly contributed to the salvation of the Bene Gesserit. Taraza sensed Leto’s lesson of “noble purpose” long before Odrade ever went to Dar-Es-Balat. She sensed a stubborn morality in Odrade, set her up as her rival, dared her to defy her and gave Odrade her head. Odrade, then (among other things), cultivated the only weapon (and the ultimate personification of noble purpose) that could save them all from Sheeana - enter Duncan Idaho.

    “You brought me back to confront the worm!” Duncan said.
    Is that what we’re doing? Teg wondered. HoD 258


    I think this might be the true reason that Leto kept bringing Duncan back. My guess here is that the ultimate lesson that Leto meant for Duncan to learn himself was to topple one as devious as Leto himself in Sheeana (after she ingests the spice).

    “You need my imagination, my inventiveness, things that kept me alive in the face of Leto’s wrath.” (Duncan to Bellonda in CD 299)

    We might have even seen a diminished Leto as a ghost in Sheeana’s head aiding Duncan in defeating her.

    Were this the case I think it would deepen the level of Leto’s sacrifice, having to repeatedly kill or watch his closest confidante die countless times to accumulate the experience necessary to prepare him for a battle thousands of years in the future.

    Really guessing here but Leto might have placed the fate of the universe in the hands of Duncan’s morality. There was a lot of focus on Duncan’s morality in GOED, Leto might have been in some way honing it or using it as a gauge to decide when Sheeana had gone too far, like he had with Leto. The one (generally) consistent thing about Duncan is, for better or worse, he always sticks to his moral convictions. (If i remember correctly, Duncan reasons that the BG use him as their "conscience" in CD and i think i remember Teg reasoning something around the same in Heretics)

    “I’m loyal to Atreides honor, Murbella.” And I make my own moral decisions-about the Sisterhood, about this child they’ve thrust into my care, about Sheeana and… and about my beloved CD 257.



    Can’t you see what she [Sheeana] intends?
    The Missionaria scheme!
    Oh, more than that. It’s the next phase: Muad’Dib to Tyrant to Honored Matres to us to Sheeana… to what? The thing is right here at the lip of your thoughts. Accept it as you would swallow a bitter drink.
    Murbella shuddered.
    See it?
    The bitter medicine of a Sheeana future? We once thought all medicines had to be bitter or they were not effective. No healing power in the sweet.
    Must it happen, Dar?
    Some will choke on that medicine. But the survivors may create interesting patterns (CD 430).


    Along with a little more dark foreshadowing, I think this chronology, or more specifically, the “medicines” can be viewed in the form of lessons (all incidentally aimed at the Bene Gesserit), thought that doesn't seem to jive with the word "phase"

    Anyway, that’s all I got. Basically, broad strokes of a few threads, I’m sure anyone could cherry pick quotes that would lead to different conclusions or contradict much of the above, but it was fun to try and thought some discussion might come of it.

    assorted random thoughts:

    If sheeana did follow Leto's path and "wormify" i dont think it would be the same as Leto, i don't think FH would do the same thing twice.

    Death of the flesh- Original death of Leto
    Death of the soul- Death of sandworms and Dune at end of HoD
    Death of the myth- Death of his religion after Duncan defeats Sheeana?
    Death of reason - ?
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby SandRider » 14 Dec 2011 00:56

    somebody bump this in a few days when I ain't so goddamn drunk & can read it all ...

    thank you, & May the God of Your Choice Bless & Keep You ...
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Freakzilla » 14 Dec 2011 09:09

    dogbone wrote:As well, I wonder about the future glimpse of machine violence Leto shows Siona in GEOD during her spice induced visions.


    I don't think that was the future. I believe it was an alternate past that Leto's metamorphasis prevented. Why would he show her a doomed future in order to get her to accept the Golden Path?

    Lasty, I think the poison that the MH are running from would be an ideal weapon of machines against humans.


    The Honored Matres had the "bloodless weapon" that even the Ixians of the old empire couldn't figure out how to duplicate. Related: See Leto's conversation about armies and technology in GEoD.

    I think this might be the true reason that Leto kept bringing Duncan back. My guess here is that the ultimate lesson that Leto meant for Duncan to learn himself was to topple one as devious as Leto himself in Sheeana (after she ingests the spice).


    She already did, to become a Reverend Mother.

    Were this the case I think it would deepen the level of Leto’s sacrifice, having to repeatedly kill or watch his closest confidante die countless times to accumulate the experience necessary to prepare him for a battle thousands of years in the future.


    To accept this we would have to believe Leto lied about not looking into the future beyond his death, besides the Siona Gene and no-fields hid them from him.

    I have no argument with most of the rest of your theories I thought it was obvious, but there's one wrinkle I'd like to add to Sheeana going through the metamorphasis: she's a female and would be suseptible to domination by a malignant male persona... Leto II.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Freakzilla » 14 Dec 2011 09:10

    I might come back to this after about another five cups of coffee...
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby JustSomeGuy » 14 Dec 2011 21:27

    No, I don't think Sheeana means to "wormify" herself. I stopped reading your post after that. You may be on to something, though. I've been reading and rereading Dune- I keep losing my place! I'll keep an open mind when I get farther along in the books.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Freakzilla » 14 Dec 2011 21:29

    I'm pretty certain she was at least going to try... or do something even worse.
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    Re: Sheeana's Vision

    Postby Tleszer » 14 Dec 2011 23:36

    Sheeana was certainly considering going the same route as Leto with the sandtrout skin. However, their "visions" of the future didn't share the same immediacy, so I don't think she would have ended up doing it. I don't think that would have stopped her from trying it if only to attempt to understand and experience Leto, though if FH had gone this route he would have possibly be treading the same ground he did with Alia and the Other Memory of the Baron; I can't imagine that he would do it.

    I feel that Leto II should stay dead and remain a mystery. Otherwise FH would run the risk of explaining too much.
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