DE is open

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    ❝ Some of the contributions are sure to arouse controversy...❞

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Re: DE is open

Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 02 Jan 2010 12:25

Analog Science Fact / Science Fiction December 1963. Dune World - Part 1/3

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...Herbert's last great novel was a tale of men under pressure of war and deep water. This is a story of men under pressure of politics and the dehydration of a waterless world...(Campbell)


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...In the week before their departure to Arrakis, When all the final scurrying about had reached a near unbearable frenzy, an old crone of a woman came to visit the mother of the boy, Paul...


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..."Stamp of strangeness", the old woman breathed, and again she shot a glance at Jessica, returned her attention to Paul. Tell me truly now, Paul, do you often dream a thing and have the dream happen exactly as you dreamed it? ...


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...Dr. Yueh....


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...The Key word was Maker. Maker? Maker. Still, Mapes held the knife as though ready to use it...


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...From the carved headboard slipped a tiny hunter-seeker no more than five centimeters long...



Analog Science Fact / Science Fiction January 1964. Dune World - Part 2/3

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...The Duke Leto Atreides leaned against a parapet of the landing control tower outside Arrakeen...


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...A solido tri-D projection appeared on the table surface about a third of the way down from the Duke. Some of the men farther down the table stood up to get a better look at it. Scaled against the tiny projected human figures around it, the machine was about one hundred and twenty meters long and about forty meters wide...


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...You have not earned the right to unsheath that blade, the Fremen said...


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...As he had approached the solitary figure standing near the ornithopter, Leto had studied him: Tall, thin - dressed for the desert in loose robe, stillsuit and desert boots...



Analog Science Fact / Science Fiction February 1964. Dune World - Part 3/3

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...She sensed a first diminishing of the dark. It began with shadows. Dimensions separated, became new thorns of awareness...


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...There was a table. Leto saw the table quite clearly. And a gross fat man on the other side of the table, the remains of a meal in front of him. Leto felt himself sitting in a chair across from the fat man, felt the chains, the straps that held him into the chair...

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...She had never before seen the man who entered and stood beside the Baron, but the face was vaguely familiar - narrow and with hawk features...


Analog Science Fact / Science Fiction April 1965. Prophet of Dune - Part 4/5

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...I am a Sandrider, Paul told himself...


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...Gurney saw the taking of the worm...


Note : some interior Dune illustrations cannot be reproduced here, as they are too close to the spine of the magazine and a decent scan is impossible without removing the pages.




source: skiffy


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      Re: DE is open

      Postby SandChigger » 04 Jan 2010 11:34

      Interesting... :)

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      Re: DE is open

      Postby Omphalos » 04 Jan 2010 13:14

      Is the question whether or not we can call the Schoenherr drawings canon? I don't think so, because FH didn't do them. But the Burns drawings in Eye are a different story. That short story is credited to FH and to Burns, and Burns makes it clear in his essay in that book that he drew the drawings, then FH wrote the text. FH liked the Schoenherr drawings, but I haven't seen that he adopted (or rather, adapted) them the way that he did with the Burns artwork.

      http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?EYEYE19XX

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      Re: DE is open

      Postby A Thing of Eternity » 04 Jan 2010 13:52

      Omphalos wrote:Is the question whether or not we can call the Schoenherr drawings canon? I don't think so, because FH didn't do them. But the Burns drawings in Eye are a different story. That short story is credited to FH and to Burns, and Burns makes it clear in his essay in that book that he drew the drawings, then FH wrote the text. FH liked the Schoenherr drawings, but I haven't seen that he adopted (or rather, adapted) them the way that he did with the Burns artwork.

      http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?EYEYE19XX


      I'd agree that they aren't "canon", but they are more so than any other drawings (excluding the Eye stuff) IMO. And I do think that FH was influenced by them - initially he never describes anything like the 3 jawed mouth of the sandworms that Schoenherr depicts (and I assume FH had a round mouth in mind), but at some point later in the series he describes the sandworm's mouth opening like petals on a flower. My guess is that he saw what Shoenherr drew and liked it enough to work it into the text in later books.
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      Re: DE is open

      Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 05 Jan 2010 02:59

      Frank Herbert was so impressed with Schoenherr's work that he once referred to him as "the only man who has ever visited Dune" (quoted in The New Encyclopedia of Science Fiction).

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          Re: DE is open

          Postby TheDukester » 05 Jan 2010 12:28

          The Analog stuff — along with other works that first appeared in magazine form — occupy a special place in the canon argument. They both are and are not canon, and, most importantly, it just doesn't matter.

          Although it's not a factor in our times, when authors are routinely contracted for trilogies on the basis of an outline, books often appeared first in magazine form in the '50s, '60s, and '70s. It was understood that editorial changes would likely be made between the magazine and book appearances (especially for "cliffhanger" serials, which, obviously, no longer need their cliffhangers when they shift to book form). These special circumstances, seen very rarely today, create some unique circumstances in terms of canon.

          Using "Dune World" as a specific example: it can be easily argued to be a canon work, as it so clearly led to both Dune and Dune Messiah, and since all the works in question are from the same mind. On the other hand, it's also possible to argue against a canon designation, as so many significant changes were made between the editions. There is not an easy answer to the question, nor an answer that fits easily into any known definition of canon. It's a tricky situation produced by a form of publishing that used to be popular but is rarely seen any longer.

          +++++

          What's not tricky: the McDune crap. It's an open-and-shut case. NOT canon. The feeble "writing" from the world's most notorious hack and a brain-dead zombie wouldn't be canon even if they could prove both the existence of Frank Herbert's notes/outlines and that they were carefully following those items. It still wouldn't matter. It still wouldn't be direct from FH's mind to fingers to typewriter to paper. Nothing else matters; Brian Herbert's last name is irrelevant.
          "Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.

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          Re: DE is open

          Postby inhuien » 07 Jan 2010 09:55

          I could have missed it but is the text to Dune World available anywhere?
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          Re: DE is open

          Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 07 Jan 2010 11:55

          i'm afraid not (i mean "not yet")


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              Re: DE is open

              Postby inhuien » 07 Jan 2010 12:36

              That's a shame.
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              Re: DE is open

              Postby inhuien » 11 Jan 2010 07:51

              I found this page http://www.scifi.darkroastedblend.com/2009/08/dune-and-other-novels-by-frank-herbert.html while having a quick look for the text to Dune World, I haven't had the chance to read it yet but the Analog cover scans looked a little sharper than those I'd seen before and thought you'd like a look.
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              Re: DE is open

              Postby DuneFishUK » 12 Jan 2010 15:17

              Dune on DRB... how did I miss that.

              Excellent :)

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              Re: DE is open

              Postby Ziggy » 20 Jan 2010 11:40

              I just noticed this thread (sorry, new around here) and checked my Amazon account to see how much I paid back in 2008. I got a good paperback copy for £7.49 + £2.75 postage. That's about 15 bucks for the yanks. Pages are a bit discoloured from age but no creases and spine intact. I probably lucked out there. The current prices are insane, and always have been I suppose. Moral of the tale, keep an eye out because they do come up cheap. So don't give up! I'd been hunting for at least a decade for a copy in reasonable condition at a reasonable price.

              PS Just had a quick look to see in any HC editions were up for sale. Erm...yeah...£400!!! :o

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              Re: DE is open

              Postby SandRider » 20 Jan 2010 14:31

              thanks to you, Askaris de Dar, a wonderful contribution here -
              I'd like to see all those pictures (& any others you have)
              posted to the "Dune Art" thread.

              going back a few pages, if you're using firefox
              (and you're an idiot if you're not) you can highlight
              any text, right click and get a decent translation within
              firefox - IE users can highlight the text, right click "Tranlate with Live Search"
              which will now open a new tab @ "Bing Translations" - there is no longer
              any excuse for Americans saying, "I can't read (that language)"

              protip: this feature is vital when surfing Russian-gang porno sites ...


              ala Bing:
              Grâce à vous, soldats de DAR, une magnifique contribution ici - je voudrais voir toutes ces photos (et d'autres vous avez) validée au thread "Dune Art".

              revenant quelques pages, si vous utilisez firefox (et si vous êtes un idiot si vous n'êtes pas), vous pouvez tout texte en surbrillance, cliquez avec le bouton droit de la souris et obtenir une traduction décente dans firefox - utilisateurs de IE peuvent mettre en surbrillance le texte, cliquez avec le bouton droit de la souris sur "Tranlate avec Live Search" qui sera désormais ouvrir un nouvel onglet @ "Bing traductions" - il n'y a pas plus aucune excuse pour les Américains, disant: "Je ne peux pas lire (langue)" protip : cette fonctionnalité est vitale lors de la navigation sur les sites de porno russe-gang...

              & how's this read, Chig ?

              おかげで、Askaris ・ デ ・ Dar、すばらしい貢献をここで、すべての画像だ (& があるその他)」を参照してくださいをお願いします 。「砂丘アート」スレッドに転記します。

              いくつかのページでは、Firefox を使用している (そうでない場合は白痴場合) のどちらであるさかのぼって任意のテキストを強調表示、右クリックして、まずまずの翻訳 firefox 内を得ることができます - IE ユーザーがテキストを強調することもできます」Tranlate で Live @ ビングの翻訳新しいタブが開きますが検索「を右クリックして-されなく任意」私は (言語) 読み取ることはできません」というアメリカ人口実が protip: この機能を [i] は [ロシア ギャング ポルノショップ サイトのサーフィンと非常に重要な/i].
              ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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              Re: DE is open

              Postby SandChigger » 20 Jan 2010 16:37

              It's good for a laugh ... or a headache if you had to fix it. :lol:

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              Re: DE is open

              Postby SandRider » 20 Jan 2010 18:08

              dunno why I didn't think of it before,
              but here is Bing's Translation of the
              above Japanese back into english :

              Thanks to the Askaris de Dar, great contribution, all the pictures here (& is a references) "to see please ask at the. Post the "Dune art" thread.

              Firefox using some of the pages in the (if not idiot if) of, either in or going up any text emphasis can get decent translation firefox in the right-click view,-can text to emphasize IE users "search opens the new Tranlate Live @ Bing translation tab", right-click-not any "I cannot read (language)" of protip: this feature [I] is in the Russian gangster a porno shop site surfing and very important /i American population fruit.


              American population fruit ?
              ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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              I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
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              Re: DE is open

              Postby inhuien » 21 Jan 2010 06:53

              American Population Fruit!

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              Re: DE is open

              Postby SandChigger » 21 Jan 2010 13:04

              Eeeew ... "Alien Onboard!" :shock:

              This is what comes of not using spaces when writing your language. :naughty:

              "any excuse for Americans"

              got rendered more or less as

              アメリカ人口実 (Amerika-jin koujitsu, lit. "American excuse")

              which got reanalyzed going the J-E direction as

              アメリカ 人口 実 (Amerika jinkou mi = "America population fruit")

              And so it goes. :lol:

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              Re: DE is open

              Postby SandRider » 21 Jan 2010 13:57

              this kinda thing has been fascinating me lately -

              like the old game of "Telephone" where one kid whispers a phase to the next kid and so on
              and you see how the message got garbled in the passing.
              ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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              I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
              how to fully interact with people.
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              Re: DE is open

              Postby DuneFishUK » 24 Jan 2010 12:55

              Ziggy wrote:I just noticed this thread (sorry, new around here) and checked my Amazon account to see how much I paid back in 2008. I got a good paperback copy for £7.49 + £2.75 postage. That's about 15 bucks for the yanks. Pages are a bit discoloured from age but no creases and spine intact. I probably lucked out there. The current prices are insane, and always have been I suppose. Moral of the tale, keep an eye out because they do come up cheap. So don't give up! I'd been hunting for at least a decade for a copy in reasonable condition at a reasonable price.

              PS Just had a quick look to see in any HC editions were up for sale. Erm...yeah...£400!!! :o

              Yeah - it's bizarre how they fluctuate. When I started looking you were lucky to get one for ~£60-£70ish.

              Needles to say I held off :P

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              Re: DE is open

              Postby DuneFishUK » 24 Jan 2010 13:01

              SandRider wrote:this kinda thing has been fascinating me lately -

              like the old game of "Telephone" where one kid whispers a phase to the next kid and so on
              and you see how the message got garbled in the passing.

              "Send three and four-pence - we're going to a dance!"

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              Re: DE is open

              Postby Ziggy » 25 Jan 2010 07:46

              Yeah - it's bizarre how they fluctuate. When I started looking you were lucky to get one for ~£60-£70ish.

              Needles to say I held off :P

              When I bought my own there were several copies floating around on Amazon marketplace and eBay for similar prices. Don't know what prompted the sudden appearence of all these copies? I think it may have been simply a case of too many appearing at one time to command the collectors prices. It's a worthwhile read for Dune aficiaoandos, but I wouldn't pay the $100 norm. I wouldn't call it an essential read although it's certainly an interesting one, and a better example of the Dune Expanded Universe than the garbage churned out on the HLP's conveyor belt of mediocrity.

              like the old game of "Telephone" where one kid whispers a phase to the next kid and so on
              and you see how the message got garbled in the passing.

              A bit like how the message of Frank's novels gets garbled on its way to KJA's dictahike?

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              Re: DE is open

              Postby SandRider » 25 Jan 2010 14:06

              A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct. This every sister of the Bene Gesserit knows. To begin your study of the life of Muad'Dib, then, take care you first place him in his time: born in the 57th year of the Padishah Emperor, Shaddam IV. And take the most special care that you locate Muad'Dib in his place: the planet Arrakis. Do not be deceived by the fact that he was born on Caladan and live his first fifteen years there. Arrakis, the planet known as Dune, is forever his place.


              english to japanese to english :

              Is the time for opening balance is correct and most delicate care. Sister Bene Gesserit knows all of this. Start a study of Muad ' DIB, life has taken care of first his deployment: 57 th year of padishah Emperor, Shaddam IV, born in his time. Most special attention Muad ' DIB to find him: planet Arrakis. By the fact that he was born in Caladan 惑 but that of the first 15 years of his life and not. Planet known as Arrakis, dune is him forever.


              that to russian to english :

              This time for the opening balance is correct and most delicate care. Sister Bene Gesserit knows all this. Start exploring Muad ' DIB life took measures first its deployment: 57 year padishah Emperor Shaddam IV, was born, in its time. Most particular attention Muad ' DIB find him: the planet Arrakis. The fact that he was born in Caladan 惑 but that the first 15 years of his life and not. Planet known as Arrakis, dune is his forever.


              and that to Hebrew to Chinese to english :


              This is the right balance and open and delicate handling. Gesserit tsfat sister know all of this. Start exploring muad'dib life its first deployment measures: 57 years padishah Emperor Shaddam IV, was born at the time. Note most muad'dib find him: the planet Arrakis. In fact, he was born in the national archives, but the main application window as lituche and 15 Caladan life. The planet Arrakis holit is known as always.




              and there you have it : Frank and Keith were both wrong;
              Paul was born in the national archives.
              ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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              Re: DE is open

              Postby SandChigger » 25 Jan 2010 19:36

              :lol:

              I could see a whole new method of Internet divination developing from this... You type in a question, google, take the text from the nth hit and feed it into Translate and bounce it back and forth a number of times and then inspect the results for your answer.

              BRILLIANT, 'Rider, simply brilliant! :D

              (You DEFINITELY have too much time on your hands! :P )

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              Re: DE is open

              Postby A Thing of Eternity » 25 Jan 2010 19:47

              I wish that would all fit into a sig!!! SR, once again you are my hero. :lol:
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              Re: DE is open

              Postby Eyes High » 26 Jan 2010 13:35

              I liked this line the best:

              Planet known as Arrakis, dune is him forever.
              What fear is there in the night?
              Nothing, but that which is in our own imaginations.


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