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Re: DE is open

Posted: 11 Oct 2009 18:48
by inhuien
SandChigger wrote:Huh, what, why? Yes, I am. Did I flub something somewhere and not catch it? :P
You know for the life of me I can't remember where I was going with that, chalk it up to a brain fart. :oops:

Re: DE is open

Posted: 11 Oct 2009 20:54
by Freakzilla
SandChigger wrote:Then the author has a responsibility to make that intent known in some way.

If an author had something cut and wanted it restored but was not able to see it through to republication for some reason, I would still consider the cut material canon IFF the author made it known that he/she considered it such and wanted it restored. That statement of intent would have to be in the author's own words and attested to by more than one party. (The word of a fuzzy-headed no-talent offspring standing to gain financially from the situation would count only as hearsay. ;) )

Again, simple. :)


Weren't the chapters cut from Dune edited for length? I suppose FH had plenty of opportunity to put them back in the novel though.

Re: DE is open

Posted: 11 Oct 2009 23:01
by SandChigger
Yup (IIRC) & yup.

If he had restored that "Caladan to Arrakis" chapter there'd be a whole lot of spinning goin' on trying to reconcile the differences in time-consuming space-folding vs. instantaneous space-folding.

It's bad enough with "the fastest Heighliners". :D

Re: DE is open

Posted: 11 Oct 2009 23:20
by Redstar
Here's a thought: What if "faster" heighliners are simply voyages that have been upped to first-class to get there sooner?

Re: DE is open

Posted: 12 Oct 2009 02:00
by SandChigger
Not sure I'm following you...

I think the common consensus is that a "fast" or "express" Heighliner is one that makes fewer stops along the way from A to B. Is that what you meant?

Re: DE is open

Posted: 12 Oct 2009 12:55
by DuneFishUK
SandChigger wrote:Not sure I'm following you...

I think the common consensus is that a "fast" or "express" Heighliner is one that makes fewer stops along the way from A to B. Is that what you meant?

That's how I always saw it. The fast heighliner doesn't stop at Gansireed, in the same way fast train doesn't stop at Peterbrough,

Re: DE is open

Posted: 14 Oct 2009 20:45
by Redstar
SandChigger wrote:Not sure I'm following you...

I think the common consensus is that a "fast" or "express" Heighliner is one that makes fewer stops along the way from A to B. Is that what you meant?

Yes, that's what I meant.

Another point to consider is that the ships are pretty big, so a "first class" could mean that they're near the exit and allowed to get off sooner instead of waiting around for a few days/weeks while everything else is unloaded first.

Re: DE is open

Posted: 14 Oct 2009 21:16
by A Thing of Eternity
Redstar wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Not sure I'm following you...

I think the common consensus is that a "fast" or "express" Heighliner is one that makes fewer stops along the way from A to B. Is that what you meant?

Yes, that's what I meant.

And considering how big the ships are, "faster" could in the case of "first class" could mean that they're near the exit so can get off sooner instead of waiting a few days/weeks to get everything unloaded.


That's actually a good point that I haven't heard brought up before, given the supposed size of these ships they could definitely take a LONG time to load and unload.

Re: DE is open

Posted: 15 Oct 2009 07:42
by Freakzilla
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Redstar wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Not sure I'm following you...

I think the common consensus is that a "fast" or "express" Heighliner is one that makes fewer stops along the way from A to B. Is that what you meant?

Yes, that's what I meant.

And considering how big the ships are, "faster" could in the case of "first class" could mean that they're near the exit so can get off sooner instead of waiting a few days/weeks to get everything unloaded.


That's actually a good point that I haven't heard brought up before, given the supposed size of these ships they could definitely take a LONG time to load and unload.


Just look at how long it takes people to load up their car in the Wal-Mart parking lot.

Re: DE is open

Posted: 20 Oct 2009 11:42
by insidiom
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Still need to find a copy for myself. That's all I have to contribute right now.


It's available in PDF. :wink:


Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather get a nice old copy for my collection.


i was lucky enough to have my wife working at half-price books. she found a copy in great condition that an employee mis-priced at $4.98.
and she got 30% off that price. :dance:

just keep visiting your local half price. it's where i've been finding the berkley trade paperbacks that have art on the bindings (that create a mural when stacked together).

Image

Re: DE is open

Posted: 20 Oct 2009 12:14
by A Thing of Eternity
insidiom wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Still need to find a copy for myself. That's all I have to contribute right now.


It's available in PDF. :wink:


Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather get a nice old copy for my collection.


i was lucky enough to have my wife working at half-price books. she found a copy in great condition that an employee mis-priced at $4.98.
and she got 30% off that price. :dance:

just keep visiting your local half price. it's where i've been finding the berkley trade paperbacks that have art on the bindings (that create a mural when stacked together).

Image




I've been hunting for those Berkley ones as well, I only have Heretics so far though. I'll find a copy of the DE eventually, I'm not really in a rush.

Re: DE is open

Posted: 20 Oct 2009 13:26
by DuneFishUK
A Thing of Eternity wrote: I'll find a copy of the DE eventually, I'm not really in a rush.

One will find you at the proper time :)

Re: DE is open

Posted: 02 Dec 2009 11:44
by Drunken Idaho
Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Still need to find a copy for myself. That's all I have to contribute right now.


It's available in PDF. :wink:


I'll take you up on that... PM me?

Re: DE is open

Posted: 02 Dec 2009 12:13
by Freakzilla
Drunken Idaho wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Still need to find a copy for myself. That's all I have to contribute right now.


It's available in PDF. :wink:


I'll take you up on that... PM me?


Just PM me what email address you'd like it sent to.

Re: DE is open

Posted: 02 Dec 2009 18:52
by DuneFishUK
Drunken Idaho wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Still need to find a copy for myself. That's all I have to contribute right now.


It's available in PDF. :wink:


I'll take you up on that... PM me?


http://www.thedune.ru/encyclopedia.html

Re: DE is open

Posted: 02 Dec 2009 19:39
by Freakzilla
I already sent it to him. I think that's where I got it, though.

Re: DE is open

Posted: 03 Dec 2009 16:45
by Drunken Idaho
DuneFishUK wrote:
Drunken Idaho wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Still need to find a copy for myself. That's all I have to contribute right now.


It's available in PDF. :wink:


I'll take you up on that... PM me?


http://www.thedune.ru/encyclopedia.html



Hmm, I can pronounce most of the Cyrillic alphabet, but I couldn't tell you what the hell it means! :P

But yeah, I got it. Thanks anyway! And I must say, I had no idea the DE was so extensive!

Re: DE is open

Posted: 03 Dec 2009 19:44
by DuneFishUK
Drunken Idaho wrote:
DuneFishUK wrote:
Drunken Idaho wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Still need to find a copy for myself. That's all I have to contribute right now.


It's available in PDF. :wink:


I'll take you up on that... PM me?


http://www.thedune.ru/encyclopedia.html



Hmm, I can pronounce most of the Cyrillic alphabet, but I couldn't tell you what the hell it means! :P

But yeah, I got it. Thanks anyway! And I must say, I had no idea the DE was so extensive!


They need to change that page - I keep giving that link to people and 90% of the time someone says they can't read Russian :P

Re: DE is open

Posted: 04 Dec 2009 13:08
by SandChigger
Cannot they read Skachat' fail / Download File link?! :shock:

Bozhe moi, what is world coming to, Natasha? (AGH, QVICK! IS MOOSE AND SQVIRREL!)

Re: DE is open

Posted: 04 Dec 2009 13:41
by Freakzilla
I figured it out and I don't even know their alphabet. :snooty:

Re: DE is open

Posted: 06 Dec 2009 17:28
by chanilover
Самые грубые ошибки в исходном файле (скорее, даже опечатки), я исправлял, все остальное оставлено, как в оригинале - например, ошибочное написание "CEVNA, NORMA" вместо "CENVA, NORMA", как это на самом деле у Герберта.

Even the commies are appalled by the Normacle. Crap is crap in whatever alphabet you use.

Re: DE is open

Posted: 01 Jan 2010 13:05
by ᴶᵛᵀᴬ
SandChigger wrote:
The content of things FH wrote, like notes and outlines and even chapter sketches, but didn't publish, or even things that got cut in the publication process (like those chapters in The Road to Dune)—none of that stuff is canon, either.

Only what FH wrote and published is canon. Anything else is just interesting materials.

It's actually quite simple. :)


"Now you will read how the Prophet Muad'Dib met his concubine, Chani-daughter-of-Liet. It happened many years ago on Arrakis (Oh, Holy Place!) when Muad'Dib was only Paul Atreides.

The Prophet Muad'Dib, as you know, was born on Caladan. He went to the planet Arrakis with his parents, Duke Leto and Lady Jessica, while still in his teens.

When Duke Leto took over his new planetary fief, Arrakis was not as it is today. On the whole planet there was no body of water open to the skies ! Even a few drops of water were precious. People hoarded their moisture in stillsuits that recycled the body's liquids.

At that time, the cities of Arrakis were only in the north, protected from the terrible sandblast storms by walls of deep basins and the mountains called Shield Wall. The central desert was a land of killer storms, giant worms and fierce Fremen bands raiding from their sietch-cave warrens.

Yet, Arrakis was then as it is today the only source in the universe of spice, melange. This is the same spice you eat, although your spice is mixed with much cassia and cinnamon. You get only a small serving of the real spice because it is so costly and because, in spite of the fact that it gives us longer lives, it also is a semipoison that makes crippled addicts of many who use too much.

The only ones who can eat the pure spice poison are those who can change it within themselves - as do the Reverend Mothers - or those who drink the freshly changed spice liquor -and this, as you have seen, is a thing of extreme peril.
Why does anyone eat this poison or drink the drug liquor ?
Truthsayers and Reverend Mothers of Bene Gesserit use it to gain their holy powers.
Navigators of the Spacing Guild use it to guide their great ships through Time and Space across the void.
Fremen use it in their most holy mysteries, but they can do this only because they have lived intimately with the spice all their lives and thus can tolerate it.
And, of course, you know it was the spice poison that gave Muad'Dib his strange powers of prophecy.
But you are going to read now about the 74th Year of Shaddam IV when Muad'Dib first went to Arrakis.At that time, the Mysteries and many other things that He has revealed to us were still secret. The Lady Jessica, Bene Gesserit mother of Muad'Dib, didn't even known that her natural father was the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, deadly enemy of the Atreides. (This is the Great Mystery wherein the Prophet's blood carries the essence of both Good and Evil.)

The reign of Muad'Dib's father, Duke Leto, lasted less than a year before the Harkonnens and their legions of Sardaukar allies fell upon Arrakis and laid it waste, using treachery and giant cannon which had not been seen in human warfare since ancient times. As you know, they could use cannon because the few field-force body shields of Arrakis did not last long in the planet's storms.
Arrakis, then, was the Place and the Time for the trial of Muad'Dib. His father was dead, killed by the Harkonnens. The Atreides officers and troops had been killed or scattered. Even the great Mentat Master of Assassins Thufir Hawat who had served three generations of Atreides with his mind powers was among the missing.
From this depth climbed Paul-Muad'Dib, the Prophet known as Usul -which is to say «The Base of The Pilar». He stood one day on the spice sands of the central desert accompanied only by his mother. The Lady Jessica's powers were limited at this time because she carried Paul-Muad'Dib's unborn sister, Alia, whom you know as St.Alia of The Knife. Muad'Dib was then a Duke without fief at the age of fifteen, target of one of the biggest manhunts of all time, with a price of ten billion solaris on his head. His location was known in that moment to but one other person, his father's famous swordmaster, Duncan Idaho, who had fled across the desert to beg sanctuary with the Fremen for the young Duke.
"

***"A Child's History of Muad'Dib"
By The Princess Irulan


[F.Herbert. The Prophet of Dune. Analog SF. January 1965, p.17]

......canon or not canon ? ....... :think:

....and his pictorial articles with Schoenherr (Dune Genesis,Omni,1980) and Burns (The Road to Dune, Eye,1985) ?
....and his audio recordings ("Dune: The Banquet Scene", "Sandworms of Dune"," The Battles of Dune",and "The Truths of Dune: Fear Is the Mind Killer":Sleeve notes on O'Reilly's Maker of Dune, 1987) ?
....and his non-fictional Dune material (interviews,articles,speeches) ?

SandChigger wrote:It's actually quite simple. :)


:whistle: HAPPY NEW YEAR !

Re: DE is open

Posted: 01 Jan 2010 22:56
by SandChigger
I'm sorry, is there something in that I'm missing which contradicts something written & published later in the books?

If not, what's the issue?

So CHANGE IT to "wrote and published and did not later contradict". :roll:

Re: DE is open

Posted: 02 Jan 2010 04:11
by ᴶᵛᵀᴬ
SandChigger wrote:
So CHANGE IT to "wrote and published and did not later contradict". :roll:


Only what FH wrote and published and did not later contradict (retcon) is canon.
Amen :pray: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)>


The "serial Dune" (dec.1963-april 1965) is quite fascinating, you know. Many differences, original epigraphs & interior illustrations (Schoenherr) ! :geek:

<http://www.arrakis.co.uk/analog.html>

Re: DE is open

Posted: 02 Jan 2010 06:33
by SandChigger
:lol:

Unfortunately I haven't seen those. Not available anywhere online, I suppose.... ??? ;)