Male in Other Memories

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Tleszer
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Postby Tleszer » 28 Oct 2008 05:42

loremaster wrote:Truthsayer (to Prisoner): "Is RM Mohiam wearing a black lace thong?"
Prisoner: How the F*** should i know?
Truthsayer *slaps prisoner* just answer!
Prisoner: Ummm..... No, she isnt wearing a black lace thong.
Truthsayer: my truthsense is tingling, which means she must be! *Fap Fap Fap Fap*


:shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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A Thing of Eternity
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 28 Oct 2008 13:32

loremaster wrote:AToE - i think there is a passage in HoD where rebecca is describing her old boyfriend, who was a truthsayer, and in there it is mentioned that

"Even if the subject genuinely believes what they are saying, my truthsense will still ring alarm bells" (paraphrased!).

Which suggests to me that truthsense is something within the natural harmony of the universe, since a person who genuinely believes what they are saying would (presumably) display no outward sign of the falsehood.

Which always led me to think that a truthsayer should ask a subject a question which they had NO chance of knowing, and just keep waiting till their spidey-sense went off.

Truthsayer (to Prisoner): "Is RM Mohiam wearing a black lace thong?"
Prisoner: How the F*** should i know?
Truthsayer *slaps prisoner* just answer!
Prisoner: Ummm..... No, she isnt wearing a black lace thong.
Truthsayer: my truthsense is tingling, which means she must be! *Fap Fap Fap Fap*


:shock:

Hmmm... once I get past the shock of your example you do have a point.
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Freakzilla
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Postby Freakzilla » 28 Oct 2008 14:53

I think a Truthsayer can only tell if the person under observation believes what they are saying, not whether what they say is actual fact.
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A Thing of Eternity
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 28 Oct 2008 15:17

Freakzilla wrote:I think a Truthsayer can only tell if the person under observation believes what they are saying, not whether what they say is actual fact.


That's the impression I had, but if loremaster is correct in that para-phrase there may be more to it... I'll try and find that in my PDFs later to look at more closely.
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moreh_yeladim
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Postby moreh_yeladim » 28 Oct 2008 15:58

As I understood it, Reverend Mothers shied away from male Other Memory because it would drive them stark, raving, sit-in-a-corner-and-scratch-the-walls mad. Biologically they could access the information, but psychologically nothing non-Kwisatz-Haderach female could comprehend the male feelings/ego/identity and survive intact.

Sort of like looking Cthulhu in the face.

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Tleszer
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Postby Tleszer » 28 Oct 2008 17:34

moreh_yeladim wrote:As I understood it, Reverend Mothers shied away from male Other Memory because it would drive them stark, raving, sit-in-a-corner-and-scratch-the-walls mad. Biologically they could access the information, but psychologically nothing non-Kwisatz-Haderach female could comprehend the male feelings/ego/identity and survive intact.

Sort of like looking Cthulhu in the face.


Or KJA...
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Lisan Al-Gaib
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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 28 Oct 2008 18:17

halcyo wrote:
Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:And what about Rebecca? Lets not forget her. She passed through the Agony and had the power of sharing, but hadn't Ancestral memories.

I think she was the example that accessing Ancestral memories was necessary a previous training.


I feel ashamed, but those details are fuzzy to me at the moment. Could someone find evidence of this? I could have sworn she talked to the Rabbi about OM. Was it really JUST the shared lives? Maybe she was just overwhelmed with all of the shared memories that she couldn't really dive deeper into her own ancestral past through all that 'noise'?

I can't imagine, having been through the Agony, that she was unable to access her own genetic memory to some extent.


"This is Rebecca, one of our people," the Rabbi said. "As I am sure you can see, she has done a dangerous thing."
"The Agony," Lucilla whispered.
"She did it long ago and she serves us well. Now, she will serve you. "
Lucilla had to be certain. "Can you Share?"
"I have never done it, lady, but I know it." As Rebecca spoke, she approached Lucilla and stopped when they were almost touching.

You are doing well. Be patient. That was Other Memory from the horde of Lampadas. The voice rang softly in her head. It had the sound of Lucilla but Rebecca could not be sure.
It had become a familiar voice in the months since the Sharing when it had announced itself as "Speaker of your Mohalata." These whores cannot match our knowledge. Remember that and let it give you courage.
The presence of Others Within who subtracted none of her attention from what went on around her had filled her with awe. We call it Simulflow, Speaker had said. Simulflow multiplies your awareness. When she had tried to explain this to the Rabbi, he had reacted in anger.
"You have been tainted by unclean thoughts!"

She spoke more softly but her words cut him even deeper. "Rabbi, if you shared witness to some of the things Other Memory has forced me to know, you would come back seeking new words for evil. Some things our ancestors have done debase the worst label you could imagine."


Well, I didn't find a exactly quote saying she hadn't Ancestral Memories, but the posts above are very interesting. I know there was a discussion about Rebecca's AM somewhere....Well, I'll keep searching.
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halcyo
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Postby halcyo » 28 Oct 2008 19:51

She spoke more softly but her words cut him even deeper. "Rabbi, if you shared witness to some of the things Other Memory has forced me to know, you would come back seeking new words for evil. Some things our ancestors have done debase the worst label you could imagine.


Seems pretty clear to me!

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Lisan Al-Gaib
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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 28 Oct 2008 20:29

halcyo wrote:
She spoke more softly but her words cut him even deeper. "Rabbi, if you shared witness to some of the things Other Memory has forced me to know, you would come back seeking new words for evil. Some things our ancestors have done debase the worst label you could imagine.


Seems pretty clear to me!


yep....Well, I don't know why I imagine that Rebecca hadn't AM....Probably it was that strange discussion...
The singular multiplicity of this universe draws my deepest attention. It is a thing of ultimate beauty.

-- The Stolen Journals


halcyo
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Postby halcyo » 29 Oct 2008 11:13

Well, she certainly is NOT Bene Gesserit trained, so I'm sure there's deficiencies in her abilities. I think that she is overwhelmed and almost confused by the whole ordeal, so I'm sure her capacity for accurately identifying her internal 'lives' as Shared or Ancestral is limited.

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Postby Freakzilla » 29 Oct 2008 15:14

She's lucky to have survived at all. I'm sure the only thing that saved her was the enormous number of Reverend Mothers in her OM from the Lampadas hoard.
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JasonJD48
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Re: Male in Other Memories

Postby JasonJD48 » 05 Feb 2015 00:00

Truthsense to me always seemed to take some mild Prescience. Yes they were masters at reading the minutia of their interactions, but such readings could never be 100% perfect as Truthsayer accuracy claimed to be, so I always throught the text hinted at a small nugget of prescient ability in the mix.

Other Memories seem to be clearer in some people than in others, I remember at some point prior to sharing with Taraza, there were blocks in Odrade's OMs, that may have to do with the individual.
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Freakzilla
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Re: Male in Other Memories

Postby Freakzilla » 05 Feb 2015 07:18

And those earlier prohibitions on my Other Memories!
She had found the blank spaces in her memories and opened them.

~HoD

There's also a passage where Odrade reveals that she is one of the rare RMs who has very vivid recall of her OM. Can't find it now, gotta work...
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Freakzilla
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Re: Male in Other Memories

Postby Freakzilla » 05 Feb 2015 09:56

Freakzilla wrote:There's also a passage where Odrade reveals that she is one of the rare RMs who has very vivid recall of her OM. Can't find it now, gotta work...


Break time...

"My memories are no longer selectively filtered," she said. "I have them all,
only on the female side, naturally."

~HoD
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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Re: Male in Other Memories

Postby JasonJD48 » 05 Feb 2015 10:11

Freakzilla wrote:And those earlier prohibitions on my Other Memories!
She had found the blank spaces in her memories and opened them.

~HoD

There's also a passage where Odrade reveals that she is one of the rare RMs who has very vivid recall of her OM. Can't find it now, gotta work...


Thanks, I knew there was something to do with Odrade not having full OM in early on in Heretics and then she was complete later on. Good finding the specific passages.
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Freakzilla
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Re: Male in Other Memories

Postby Freakzilla » 05 Feb 2015 10:12

I exist only to serve. :P
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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