Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

Freakzilla wrote: I know Leto wasn't BG but he was a product of their breeding program and the way I see it he was more BG than the BG.

I think so too. Great quote find!

I think Freakzilla has the entire series committed to memory.

Naib wrote:I think Freakzilla has the entire series committed to memory.

Hehe, not quite.

I think the maturation of humanity the BG sought (prior to Muad'Dib) was nothing more than some idealized universe where people weren't always bickering and fighting over petty issues. Their OM gives them insight on the repetitious cycle of war. Likely, the early BG saw themselves as Mothers trying to keep their children from fighting; they wanted to see them "grow-up."

Their goal for the KH was precise: a super mentat with some of the prescient abilities of a Guild Navigator.
The future predicted by a KH is shaped by the events around him... a KH in an influential position can create great waves (as evidenced by Paul). This is why the BG wanted him on the throne as opposed to sitting in "Mother's" basement eating copious amounts of melange and trying to shape the future.

It seems the extinction threat Leto saw was a result of Muad'Dib's Jihad. The contention it wrought in the universe paved the way for short-sighted and drastic measures. Only then did the BG recognize it. Who knows what they planned to do about it, but it seems they tried to use Jessica to get close to the twins. However, I think Jessica acted alone when she had Leto abducted and forced into the trance since the Sisterhood's plan was clearly trying to get Leto and Ghani to mate.

When Leto II mentions that the BG are so close, yet so far from what they can be I think he's alluding to what Teg remarks in HoD: that the BG are somehow "removed" from humanity. That their conscious decision to avoid love takes something away from them. It is likely Leto suspected the BG would never fix this flaw in themselves and, hence, considered destroying them that once. Love, the driving force behind nearly all of Leto's actions, is what (I think) Leto saw missing in the BG.

After the Scattering, humanity became infinite. No threat, no matter how large, would ever threaten ALL of humanity. By rote the BG become insignificant. They necessarily fall back on self-preservation. I don't see this as them "losing their way" or anything; whatever plans they might have had prior to the Tyrant were made irrelevant by the GP.

Deskepticon wrote:It seems the extinction threat Leto saw was a result of Muad'Dib's Jihad. The contention it wrought in the universe paved the way for short-sighted and drastic measures. Only then did the BG recognize it. Who knows what they planned to do about it, but it seems they tried to use Jessica to get close to the twins. However, I think Jessica acted alone when she had Leto abducted and forced into the trance since the Sisterhood's plan was clearly trying to get Leto and Ghani to mate.

Is this your opinion or based on the text?

Deskepticon wrote:Love, the driving force behind nearly all of Leto's actions, is what (I think) Leto saw missing in the BG.

I would have read the bible instead of Dune if i wanted such romantization of "love". I know that it is a theme for FH, but this just sounds way to plain.

But what do i know, maybe he was just a fucking hippie.

Captain_Cackwurst wrote:

Deskepticon wrote:Love, the driving force behind nearly all of Leto's actions, is what (I think) Leto saw missing in the BG.

I would have read the bible instead of Dune if i wanted such romantization of "love". I know that it is a theme for FH, but this just sounds way to plain.

But what do i know, maybe he was just a fucking hippie.

Love was Leto's weakness. Maybe you could say that his love for humanity was a driving force towards his goal to save it.

Freakzilla wrote:

Captain_Cackwurst wrote:

Deskepticon wrote:Love, the driving force behind nearly all of Leto's actions, is what (I think) Leto saw missing in the BG.

I would have read the bible instead of Dune if i wanted such romantization of "love". I know that it is a theme for FH, but this just sounds way to plain.

But what do i know, maybe he was just a fucking hippie.

Love was Leto's weakness. Maybe you could say that his love for humanity was a driving force towards his goal to save it.

Leto said that what the BG were missing was noble purpose, which arguably could be called love for humanity, absolutely. This is a bit different from just saying "love", since love for one person, as Jor-El told Kal-El, makes the one more valuable than the many; this is exactly what happened to Paul with Chani.