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The agony
Posted: 05 Feb 2012 22:00
by Idaho Arkright
Hi All
First time poster long time Dune fan. I thought the spice agony idea would be an
interesting topic. Specically I was wondering if
people think FH changed or at least evolved his idea
On the matter. In particular it seems that in the original Dune taking the water of
Life and gaining other memory was a very different experience then the later idea of "the agony." Jessica and Paul both seemed to have relatively pain free transformations, the key point was an ability to look within and
Change the nature of the poison allowing survival. In contrast later the fascinating idea of "the agony" and a trial by the most immense pain was introduced. Contradiction in thinking or rather just a deeper insight?
Re: The agony
Posted: 05 Feb 2012 22:54
by JimmytheT
The change I noticed in the agony experienced by BG between Dune and Chapter House,was that when Jessica went through the agony, she only inherited the memories of preceeding Reverend Mothers; by the time of Heretics, aparently the BG have access to all female ancestral memories, not just Reverend Mothers.
EDIT - Oh and welcome by the way.
Re: The agony
Posted: 05 Feb 2012 23:21
by Freakzilla
There is no "Agony" in Dune.
Lady Jessica experiences a pause in time while she transmutes the un-changed water of life.
Then, WHILE IN THE SPICE TRANCE she SHARES with the Fremen Reverend Mother Ramallo and accepts all the memories of her ancestors.
Re: The agony
Posted: 05 Feb 2012 23:25
by Freakzilla
You want to hear my theory on WHY it's agonizing in the later books?
Probably not because I'm an asshole.
Re: The agony
Posted: 05 Feb 2012 23:35
by Freakzilla
It's my theory that the 'agony' comes later because Leto II bred a sensitivity to spice into the Atreides. Take for example how Siona has prescient visions from just a few drops of Leto's... essence, hehe.
Re: The agony
Posted: 06 Feb 2012 08:41
by SandRider
lemme guess ... you bet your mom's house on whoever it was what lost the SuperBowl,
started drinking around 2pm, ended up huffing paint thinner in the garage around midnight,
and thought you check-in at the sietch to "relax", right ?
Re: The agony
Posted: 06 Feb 2012 08:51
by SandRider
all hail ming ....
Re: The agony
Posted: 06 Feb 2012 19:01
by Idaho Arkright
Ok yeh not the best written post. There is not really a question just pointing out inconsistency.
I agree what Jimmy wrote other memory also changed from just previous reverend mothers to all female ancestors.
Freak i don't think there is anything in geod suggesting Leto
II changed the nature of the spice experience to create the agony.
sand rider right on all accounts!... Well a least drinking 2am part
Introduction? American.. out of college for couple years now. From midwest travel a lot working in oil&gas
lately. Name obviously not Idaho though do like to go to Idaho! Great state. first read dune series
10 years or so ago re-reading now.
Re: The agony
Posted: 06 Feb 2012 19:41
by SadisticCynic
Hi,
Arkright is an interesting name choice; what prompted it?
(This should really be in the Intro forum.)
Re: The agony
Posted: 06 Feb 2012 19:57
by Idaho Arkright
Hi
Cynic.
Name idea came from geod. Leto ii at one point talked about writing under a pseudonym... Noah Arkwright. Looks like I misspelled it when signing into forum but guess arkright is close enough to get the idea
Re: The agony
Posted: 07 Feb 2012 13:05
by Freakzilla
SandRider wrote:lemme guess ... you bet your mom's house on whoever it was what lost the SuperBowl,
started drinking around 2pm, ended up huffing paint thinner in the garage around midnight,
and thought you check-in at the sietch to "relax", right ?
Something like that... there was excessive drinking involved, starting at 12:01 PM.
The police came later that night (early the next morning?) but I didn't get arrested.
From what I remember they just wanted to express to me how impressed they were by my little 50W Sony bookself speakers.
Sorry for getting belligerent in your topic, Idaho.
Re: The agony
Posted: 14 Mar 2012 19:50
by Freakzilla
I deleted evidence of my belligerence in some above posts because his was actually a good question...
I also edited some of my more lucid comments that were actually germane.
I normally don't delete or edit posts, but hey, they were mine. So,
Re: The agony
Posted: 14 Mar 2012 19:55
by Freakzilla
Idaho Arkright wrote:Freak i don't think there is anything in geod suggesting Leto II changed the nature of the spice experience to create the agony.
I wasn't suggesting he changed the nature of the experience but increased the people in his breeding program's sensitivity to spice. This would also be important during The Famine Times.
Re: The agony
Posted: 15 Mar 2012 09:58
by lotek
Idaho Arkright wrote:Hi All
First time poster long time Dune fan. I thought the spice agony idea would be an interesting topic.
Specically I was wondering if people think FH changed or at least evolved his idea on the matter.
In particular it seems that in the original Dune taking the water of Life and gaining other memory was a very different experience then the later idea of "the agony."
Jessica and Paul both seemed to have relatively pain free transformations, the key point was an ability to look ithin and change the nature of the poison allowing survival.
In contrast later the fascinating idea of "the agony" and a trial by the most immense pain was introduced. Contradiction in thinking or rather just a deeper insight?
now that's a better read, what's with the weird paragraph choices ?