No. The BT are master geneticists. People put too much emphasis on the BT KH, in my opinion. He was merely an experiment to see how a being of a pure essence would react to being forced to become his opposite. Their KH killed himself. This was all in order to find a way to defeat Paul.
Even if they are master geneticists they can't create something out of nothing. So if all they knew about the KH was that it was based on genetics and Paul was one they would need a starting point to begin their analysis. Hence they go get some KH DNA from Paul. Now if they wanted to tease out the KHness from the DNA the would then use Pual's DNA as a base and then 'knock out' certain genes, do this over and over again untill they found the set of genes that when put into another persons genome meant they had KH abilities. It does seem like they were doing this considering the dwarf/master in DM. Though if they just wanted a KH the simplest and fastest solution is just to clone Paul. Investigating something that has power based solely on its genetic code would have been of huge interest to the BT.
The BT mention of their KH comes in DM, after Paul has been emperor for twelve years. We don't know how long the cabal has been going. If I'm not mistaken, Princess Irulan goes through all Paul's attributes in the begining of their meeting in DM. There is no reason to assume the BG haven't told the BT about the KH in order to give them the information needed to help them defeat Paul.
I would assume that the BG were still being their secretive self and told the BT as little as possible. I am saying that if the BT wanted to investigate a KH all they would need would be a KH genome which at this stage is Paul. Cloning Paul doesn't mean they were trying to find his weakness, Paul like any person is formed by his experience, like the Duncans aren't really Duncan untill they're awakened, so an un-awakend clone of Paul would only be a KH not Paul. Hence it would only 'tell' them information about a KH not anything about Paul's personality or behaviour (as seperate from his behaviour/personality which is due to him being a KH).
There is no evidence to support that the BT KH had prescience or OM. It was only said that he was a being of pure essence.
To be called a KH it must either show evidence of prescience/OM (I believe both are needed to be defined as a KH but it would at least have to show evidence of one or the other) or alternatively would be a clone or ghola of a known KH since being a KH is based solely on genetics. This is unless of course they figured out exactly what genes constituted a KH, which seems unlikely as it would be a problem far more complex than synthesising spice (which they were probably also working on, if they succeded they would essentially be able to print their own money). Something which they only acheived after clues from Leto II which I always considered the reason for them calling him the prophet (they call genetics the language of god and claim he gave it to them). I though it was implied that it was because it had prescience that it killed itself.
My point ws more about the idea that if you gave a unawakened ghola/clone some spice essence/water of life/whatever drug the BGs use (though they do use spice essence) to someome who either had the training (BG) or genetics (KH) during which they would gain OM, it seems logical that they would also gain back the memories of their past life as an extension of that. I was thinking that the BT would test to see that whatever thay had grown was a KH and the easiest way I can see to do that would be to give it spice essence/water of life/whatever drug the BGs use and see if it survived.
Everyone has OM, the trick is accessing it.
I should have said those who are conscious of their OM.
Only a male can be the KH.
I made that point later (or tried to).
you left out Ghanima.
I could have included her as a maybe - I don't recall her ever taking the drug or showing evidence of visions outside of Paul as OM. She could have had the potential but I don't know that it was ever tested and she had no reason to try.
Obtaining male and female OM is PRECISELY what the KH is.
If thats all it is why does everyone in the dune universe associates it with prescience (and OM). It maybe what the BG wanted but it is not what the KH is. Remember Teg doesn't tell the BG about his ability to see no-ships or his prescience saying they will think him a potential KH (and potentially kill him because of it), he has no access to OM though.
No, it has to do with male ancestral personas being dominant and malignant and possessing their host (in the case of females).
Sorry your wrong. Ghanima as male and female OM and doesn't become possessed, she in fact discovers a way to avoid possession - namely gaining her own personality seperate to OM and having a benelovent ancestor protect her. Leto on the other hand becomes possessed at least in part by the pharoah. Being posessed is a danger for all the pre-born as they cannot fully seperate themselve from OM. It seems to me like they are almost part of OM themselves.
(On a tangent - The Guild can’t (is highly unlikely) to have male OM 1. There is no indication what-so-ever of them having such, but then again Frank Herbert doesn’t spell things out – so 2. If they did have OM their behaviour as an organisation would be different i.e. they would know the end point of their parasitic existence and male OM would never stand it – all those dictators and conquerors.)
As I said, everyone has OM.
But if they were consciously aware of it their behaviour would be different, more long term like the BG - not merely trying to survive. My point was more trying to make sense of the idea that nobody has purely male OM which is what I would consider to be 'male BG' so possibly the 'male BG' have the future (prescience)(or 'the taker') like the BG have the past (OM) (or 'the giver'), a KH is in between the two/both (cannot take without giving and cannot give without taking).
The KH was a goal of the BG,
not a requirement for the GP.
A KH must be required to put humanity on the GP. Paul thinks how something he did caused the death of Duncan. I see the ability of the KH to shift the whole universe down different paths - others can't do this, Teg for instance only sees one possibility, Odrae senses the proximity of danger, essentially sensing the present situation. Incidentaly I think Alias ability is due to he proximity/closeness to Paul not due to her own ability.
Leto's preborn condition was due to Chani's high spice content Fremen fertility diet which was an attempt to counteract Irulan's secretly administered contraceptive... close enough, obviously. Leto's "worm trip" administered by Namri and Gurney forced him to integrate all his memory personas.
I see what your saying, that he had taken the 'drug' while still in the womb. I have two main problems with this: 1.Chani never took enough spice to become a reverend mother, if she had taken spice essence maybe but she didn't. 2. Both Leto and Ghani are afraid of taking the 'drug' thinking it will lead to possession like it did with Alia and Leto himself distinguishes the two if it had already happened it the womb why would he do so. (Sorry if I didn't get what you were trying to say here.) I'm not convinced that the high intake of spice is the reason they were pre-born but more how those around them and they themselves justify their situation. It could be that the high spice diet coupled with their genetics meant they were pre-born. It can't be the diet itself otherwise I doubt it would be recommended as every child born through that fertility treatment would be pre-born and while the fremen didn't kill the pre-born out right I doubt they encouraged them (considering failing the trial of possession meant death) and they wouldn't use a treatment that invariably caused such children. To me a heavy intake of spice just doesn't quite seem enough to justify them being pre-born. (sorry that got kind of long and off topic.)
So, is Jessica not a Reverend Mother because she didn't do it exactly the way the BG prescribe?
No, I was just saying that according to that definition you would only call Paul a KH. The BG themeselves don't prescribe to this in the book as they also call Leto a KH. It could be taken that someone pre-born cannot be a KH, but then again the BG still call leto a KH. It is probably more if they fulfil the reqirements rather then how they got their that defines a KH.
It means both male and female ancestries. Is it unreasonable to assume that a sisterhood could only see into feminine pasts would desire to create a being who can see the male pasts as well? They know the power this gives them and would appreciate the additional power having a complete picture of the past would provide.
My point was more about the laguage use in the quote implying an external source. And no it is not unreasonable, though if the BG had come up with the idea themselves wouldn't they assume they would have only male OM just like the BG only has female. They are also assuming they know what would befound in the part that terrorizes them, a part which they can never see and therfore have no way of knowing. So I was thinking it would make sense if someone i.e. the KH had told them they woud be in his OM after all.
Tell me, when does the past end and the future start? Now? Now? Now?
There is no Time, things just move.
That may very well be true, it may just be a constraint needed to make sense of the universe like the gravitational consant. But we still generally define the past as what has been, the present as what is happening now and the future as what will happen. We can easily distinguish this, my point is Paul a KH can't the past, present and future may all very well be percieved the same to him, hence he has trouble establishing himself in the present that he currently physically exists in.