KWISATZ HADERACH

[Phaedrus]

It's not because they're illogical.

It's because they're stupid, inane, and poorly written.

[Zak]

Another added benefit of the male-line OM would be a more in-depth knowledge of the inner-workings of a lot of the great houses. We can assume there are quite a few BG style concubines. Their husbands may or may not keep quite a bit secret. If things had gone to plan the KH would have known everything about house Atredies, and also be the leader of house Harkonen. This would have put him in an even better political position to be used by the BG. If there had been other political alliance marriages in the two houses, the KH would have their memories as well. Not sure how useful they would be after a few hundred years though...

[Freakzilla]

Another added benefit of the male-line OM would be a more in-depth knowledge of the inner-workings of a lot of the great houses. We can assume there are quite a few BG style concubines. Their husbands may or may not keep quite a bit secret. If things had gone to plan the KH would have known everything about house Atredies, and also be the leader of house Harkonen. This would have put him in an even better political position to be used by the BG. If there had been other political alliance marriages in the two houses, the KH would have their memories as well. Not sure how useful they would be after a few hundred years though...

He would also have memories of the Corrino line, allthough far back.

[Arrrmanda]

Does it ever say how distant cousins Leto and Shaddam were? I can't remember.

[Redstar]

I think it said they were distaff cousins, meaning cousins through marriage on the female side. (Though of course related by blood more distantly)

[Arrrmanda]

Yeah that's what I meant, the blood relation. It doesn't say that does it? Or maybe it's only known to the Bene Gesserit or whatever.

[SadisticCynic]

Yeah that's what I meant, the blood relation. It doesn't say that does it? Or maybe it's only known to the Bene Gesserit or whatever.

If it's known he's a distaff cousin then it's probably known how far back the relation goes, but as to whether it tells us or not, I don't think so.

[Harq al Ada]

This may have been mentioned somewhere in here already (I'm between classes and haven't read it all yet) but didn't Dar mention that prescience is an Atreides trait?

And, a problem I had with Messiah, Aliah had the male memory, at least to a degree, also. It's been too long since I've read them but I don't recall Mr. Herbert ever reconciling this. I excused it as a characteristic of the "abomination."

[SadisticCynic]

This may have been mentioned somewhere in here already (I'm between classes and haven't read it all yet) but didn't Dar mention that prescience is an Atreides trait?

And, a problem I had with Messiah, Aliah had the male memory, at least to a degree, also. It's been too long since I've read them but I don't recall Mr. Herbert ever reconciling this. I excused it as a characteristic of the "abomination."

It is a characteristic of the abomination, as I recall, Bene Gesserit training is designed to prevent the male lineage from being accessed i.e. the taker is deadly to the giver. Ghani also would have had male memories.

[Harq al Ada]

Right on, thanks. So they taught them to fear and avoid it.

I need to read them all again.

[SadisticCynic]

I was actually wondering about that as I typed; when Paul forces Jessica to show him where the place she cannot look is, her mind immediately repulses from it. Implies maybe more than simply warning them i.e. some type of compulsion built into the training regimen.

[Redstar]

Yeah, this was an issue I had a long time ago. Freak, I believe, clarified the issue on DN. Everyone has AM of either gender-line, just females can't look along their male line without risk of Possession.

[Freakzilla]

Yeah, this was an issue I had a long time ago. Freak, I believe, clarified the issue on DN. Everyone has [O]M of either gender-line, just females can't look along their male line without risk of Possession.

It's moments like these that make a daddy proud.

[Harq al Ada]

So then abominations are more susceptible because they don't get that fear drilled into them? Or they are abominations because they are more susceptible? Didn't Leto ii have something similar with one of his OM but more of an agreement with each other rather than a possession?

[Freakzilla]

So then abominations are more susceptible because they don't get that fear drilled into them? Or they are abominations because they are more susceptible?

Leto claimed it was fear that defeated Alia. Pre-born don't have a developed personality to resist malignant ancestral personas.

Didn't Leto ii have something similar with one of his OM but more of an agreement with each other rather than a possession?

Harum was his dominant ancestor, without whom there would have been no future. He seemed to be an Egyptian Phaoroh or similar. For a time, Harum was a sort of leader of Leto's ancestral mob, similar to the BG RM's Mohalata, but eventually Leto was able to integrate each persona into his own.

[Harq al Ada]

thank you again. it's all starting to come back to me.

I haven't had anyone to talk to about the books in a long time. Only been able to rant now and again when people tell me how much the SciFi channel's rape of Dune was better than Lynch's adaptation.

[Arrrmanda]

Only been able to rant now and again when people tell me how much the SciFi channel's rape of Dune was better than Lynch's adaptation.

Them's fightin' words sir.

[Harq al Ada]

I've got some boxing gloves and this looks like a fair ring.

just because the SciFi channel was able to shove, hammer, and cram in more scenes doesn't mean it was better.

their "adaptation" may have been based on this, if they even bothered to do that.


acting, directing, special effects, the sets, and the costume design (the Guild [were they from France?], Saudakar [we're tough in our floppy hats], and Harkonnen designs were particularly hilarious) were just a few of the problems I had with SciFi's version of Dune.

More: Paul a spoiled brat??? Lack of still suits (EFFIN'! HEELS ON THE WOMEN'S SUITS!) and random use of them, open air sietches (Hello? *knock! knock!* Water discipline?), lovable rhyming Baron??? waaaaay too much emotion shown by Jessica, Paul, and Leto, and Irulan (WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?). They treated Gurney like he was a lumbering buffoon. You barely noticed Yueh at all. The lack of character development given the length of the thing was amazing. They turned these beautifully thought out characters into caricatures. Horrible.

[Freakzilla]

I didn't know Robbie the Robot was in Dune! WTF?

[Harq al Ada]

you have to read in between the lines really really hard but he's in there.

[Arrrmanda]

acting, directing, special effects, the sets, and the costume design (the Guild [were they from France?], Saudakar [we're tough in our floppy hats], and Harkonnen designs were particularly hilarious) were just a few of the problems I had with SciFi's version of Dune.

More: Paul a spoiled brat??? Lack of still suits (EFFIN'! HEELS ON THE WOMEN'S SUITS!) and random use of them, open air sietches (Hello? *knock! knock!* Water discipline?), lovable rhyming Baron??? waaaaay too much emotion shown by Jessica, Paul, and Leto, and Irulan (WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?). They treated Gurney like he was a lumbering buffoon. You barely noticed Yueh at all. The lack of character development given the length of the thing was amazing. They turned these beautifully thought out characters into caricatures. Horrible.

And this is some how worse than what David Lynch did?

[trang]

As as fan of both the lynch and the sci fi series version, they are both bad... its just the dimension you wish to go I think.

The Lynch version got the Epic feel to it, the rest was his "Visual Artist" interpretation. Frank was on the Lynch project and there is 30 or 40 mintues of audio (lynch talks for about 10 minutes) about the hows, whys, and do's of this version. The Storyboard addition/cut scenes added int he 3 hour plus version is a little better but still bad in a comparison sense.

The Dune and COD versions on Sci-Fi were bad in many different ways, there is a book out that details the production of the 2001 dune, I have it, but its in storage at the moment (Real life is turmoil mess at the moment), but the few pages I read into it seemed to give insight.

Anything Visual Dune is appealing, be it art, motion, or otherwise. Audio is also cool. It just adds to the experience.

Hopefully someday someone will dedicate themselves, have enough money, time, and dedication to bring a true epic rendering of the entire original series.

[Seraphan]

Both adaptations ridiculed Voice, the movie had exagerated and too theatrical acting, scenes were crammed.
The mini series had sandworms that growled, some acting would've been better if pieces of wood had made it into the cast. Certain character roles were changed obviously because of the actors/actresses in play (Irulan and Wencicia).
And it was amazing how many people lived in Arrakis but didnt have the eyes of the ibad. Something of wich, both adaptations also failed to portray correctly.

[A Thing of Eternity]

To be honest I am looking forward to the new Dune movie, even if it just gives me something to complain about. Obviously I love that the idiot director is off the project, and I hope DEARLY that the hack is involved in as little a way as possible.

[Slugger]

I enjoyed the two miniseries. The music from CoD rocks, too. They're pretty good to get people introduced to Dune.