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Re: Other Memory
Posted: 08 Jan 2014 13:23
by BH
Serkanner wrote:Interestingly enough I was laughed off earlier in this topic (page 5) about me having a similar premises. Serkanner score!
Some of us continue to laugh.
Neener, neener!
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 08 Jan 2014 15:37
by Freakzilla
For the record, I didn't laugh. Well, not AT YOU.
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 09 Jan 2014 07:07
by Serkanner
... Do we have a "smug" smiley?
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 09 Jan 2014 07:08
by Serkanner
BH wrote:Serkanner wrote:Interestingly enough I was laughed off earlier in this topic (page 5) about me having a similar premises. Serkanner score!
Some of us continue to laugh.
Neener, neener!
Says the one who uses TheHacks' codpiece as a pacifier.
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 09 Jan 2014 13:17
by Freakzilla
Oops...
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 16 Jan 2014 18:02
by distrans
pacifier?!??!
as opposed to a chew ring thingeey...
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 07 Dec 2017 12:18
by distrans
In a letter to William Kennedy, Hunter Thompson confided that he was "coming to view the free enterprise system as the single greatest evil in the history of human savagery."[Hunter S. Thompson The Proud Highway, 1998, pg. 456.]
the bene gesserit mention that other memories provides the revelation of what savagery people are capable of and what great examples of it you have in your ancestry in order to be among the survivors of human evolution.
not sure how deep into history other memories extends but lets say its confined to that portion where language is used; say 80,000 years. that makes nearly 90% of them from hunter gather societys which would predominantly have been matriarchal
yet the pre-born kwisatz haderach only mention agriculturalists men used in alliance to keep the hordes of other memories at bay
was this a comment on where frank saw the peak of human despotism?
I don't remember paul mentioning any alliance
nor any reverend months needing help preserving their individuality from the female line
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 07 Dec 2017 14:07
by Freakzilla
distrans wrote:In a letter to William Kennedy, Hunter Thompson confided that he was "coming to view the free enterprise system as the single greatest evil in the history of human savagery."[Hunter S. Thompson The Proud Highway, 1998, pg. 456.]
the bene gesserit mention that other memories provides the revelation of what savagery people are capable of and what great examples of it you have in your ancestry in order to be among the survivors of human evolution.
not sure how deep into history other memories extends but lets say its confined to that portion where language is used; say 80,000 years. that makes nearly 90% of them from hunter gather societys which would predominantly have been matriarchal
yet the pre-born kwisatz haderach only mention agriculturalists men used in alliance to keep the hordes of other memories at bay
was this a comment on where frank saw the peak of human despotism?
I don't remember paul mentioning any alliance
nor any reverend months needing help preserving their individuality from the female line
I believe Leto II's OM went back to the original cell. I'm not sure how far back RM's go.
Bene Gesserit Reverend Mothers have what they call their Mohalata, a union of their benign ancestors that protect them from malignant ancestors.
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 07 Jan 2018 23:53
by pcqypcqy
Also, Paul was an adult (or nearly one) when he took the spice. Alia, Leto II and Ghanima were pre-born.
From memory, FH spends some time discussing this in CoD and/or GEoD, explaining how the overcame their other memories.
Part of the solution is that adults have their own identity, so are better at resisting posession.
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 08 Jan 2018 11:53
by georgiedenbro
Freakzilla wrote:
Bene Gesserit Reverend Mothers have what they call their Mohalata, a union of their benign ancestors that protect them from malignant ancestors.
Where is the term Mohalata from? I don't remember it from my last read-through.
To be fair to what distrans wrote above, I do think there are indications in Messiah that Frank viewed bureaucracy as being the ultimate tyranny, and so there's an argument to be made that the OM referred to in CoD and GeoD saw male industrialists as being the peak of human despotism. There may have been malignant female ancestors, but for them to have been despots to a notable level they would have to have also had a system in place that was despotic. Hunter-gatherer societies most likely didn't have this kind of social machinery and so they were incapable of being despotic as a culture to the same extent that later human civilization could achieve.
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 08 Jan 2018 14:16
by Freakzilla
georgiedenbro wrote:Freakzilla wrote:
Bene Gesserit Reverend Mothers have what they call their Mohalata, a union of their benign ancestors that protect them from malignant ancestors.
Where is the term Mohalata from? I don't remember it from my last read-through.
It's first used in
Children of Dune, Ghanima calls on it to protect her from Other Memory. It's used a couple of other times in that book as a Fremen term, not related to Other Memory. It's again used in
Chapterhouse: Dune by Rebecca, Bellonda, and Murbella in reference to OM.
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 09 Jan 2022 09:41
by distrans
its to easy to think of the spice trance as being the end of it
reading close it would seem more that it was a beginning of each mothers battle between other memories and the sisterhoods programming
from what i remember frank made it simple
the truth i find elsewhere...
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 10 Jan 2022 13:49
by georgiedenbro
distrans wrote:its to easy to think of the spice trance as being the end of it
reading close it would seem more that it was a beginning of each mothers battle between other memories and the sisterhoods programming
What Mothers' battle with the Sisterhood's programming? Where are you getting that idea from?
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 11 Jan 2022 21:10
by distrans
i thought it would be obvious other memories mean a sisters predominate memories would fall outside of sisterhood training
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 12 Jan 2022 15:22
by georgiedenbro
distrans wrote:i thought it would be obvious other memories mean a sisters predominate memories would fall outside of sisterhood training
Wrong. We learn in the last two books that
anyone who gains access to their OM becomes automatically a BG. You have it backwards: the BG are not BG because of their training, which conflicts with the RM memories, but rather the BG are what they are
because of the RM memories. That is the entire point of the BG order. This is why Paul and Leto II were such a revelation: they didn't realize that a male BG would have a distinctly different understanding than a female BG does. They assumed that, as usual, the awakened memories would make someone loyal to the BG, because they assumed they already knew what there was to know (they didn't).
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 13 Jan 2022 21:39
by distrans
georgiedenbro wrote:v
Wrong. We learn in the last two books that anyone who gains access to their OM becomes automatically a BG. loyal to the BG, because they .
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 13 Jan 2022 21:44
by distrans
georgiedenbro wrote:v
Wrong. We learn in the last two books that anyone who gains access to their OM becomes automatically a BG. loyal to the BG, because they .
i give it up im a fuck up here and there
but did you really just say that?
i dont find a word in the canon which speaks to such inherancy in those who survived the trance
not even the conditioned.
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 13 May 2023 18:09
by distrans
does jessica every explain her choice to accept the agony while pregnant?
Re: Other Memory
Posted: 31 Jul 2023 09:32
by Freakzilla
distrans wrote: ↑13 May 2023 18:09
does jessica every explain her choice to accept the agony while pregnant?
I don't think she really had much of a choice.