Scottish Independence

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Scottish Independence

Postby SandRider » 29 Feb 2012 14:28

Ian Hamilton wrote:ON IDENTITY
February 15th, 2012

This piece appeared yesterday in the Scottish Review. Soon it will appear in Newsnet Scotland.
The extravagant headings, and footage, were not mine. Here is how I would have it.



I am 86. Thus I have lived in the United Kingdom for more than a quarter of its existence. My observations on its identity and mine may be of value.

Even in the 1920s and 1930s I always knew I was a Scot. So sure was I of my identity that I never minded being called British or English. If called the latter I just thought they were wrong.

During the war we were all called English. As I grew up I discovered that my petit bourgeois contemporaries thought that there was no Scotland. It had been absorbed into its greater neighbour. Looking back this is not surprising. The union gave us the chance to expand into the great free trade area that became the British empire. We seized that chance. Glasgow was the empire’s second city. We were the workshop of the world.

Seventy years ago it seemed that the price we had paid for the wealth of empire was the loss of our identity as Scots. To be ignorant of who you are is profoundly disturbing. England suffers from it badly today. The England of the shires, of Puck of Pook’s Hill, has gone. England is now London.

We have been luckier. We are still us. We blame the loss of our industries on successive English governments not on ourselves. We did nothing. We continued to vote unionist. The enterprise that built the great forges has been lacking. I can tell you where it went. It went to schools like Fettes and Loretto where the enterprise was whipped out of them and they were squeezed into the mould of English gentlemen. They live on in their great-grandfather’s
country estates here in Argyll. The enterprise has gone elsewhere.

We lost our confidence when we lost our empire. Don’t worry. It’s coming back. Even Fred Goodwin, is a sign. Better to gamble and topple a great bank than to live in the suburban inanity of Bearsden. The 1878 failure of the City of Glasgow Bank led to the founding of the great law firm of McGrigor Donald and to the Industrial Exhibition of 1888. McGrigors, as it was laterally called, has now joined up with a great London firm. We Scots are true internationalists and there is no border to our abilities. Failure is the manure of success. The loss of empire followed by the loss of our industries has caused us Scots to look round. Even the great landlords are affronted to think their estates end at the salt seashore. The solum of the seabed to beyond the furthest horizon is still held by England. That is where the next great development will come. We have three quarters of the tidal power of Europe. Oil is pocket money compared to the tides.

Even in a nation’s history 86 years is a long time. I remember the salient points of the change from British to Scottish. None of them was political. We never got the jail for the Stone. The people cheered us. There was public support for our ‘no numeral’ campaign when Elizabeth the ‘Second’ came to the throne. Scotland had had no ‘First’ Elizabeth. Our coronation souvenirs without the numeral were wildly popular. The newspapers backed us in their news columns but refused to take our paid advertisements. They were feart as they still are.

Then one day I went into a pub and found a group gathered round a TV set cheering wildly. Someone had scored a goal against England. The affectionate anti-Englishness of the general public is far more proof of the independent vitality of the Scottish nation than any vote. There is more racial abuse towards us in the English papers than we would ever think of using towards England. It is a much loved foreign country but it is recognized as foreign.

And now we are to have a referendum. Mr Cameron, the near-illiterate occupier of the post of Disraeli and Gladstone and Churchill, steals a word from Quebec and refers to it as a neverendum. Is there a better definition of democracy than a neverendum? He will face a neverendum at the end of his five years if not sooner. In the long history of Scotland our referendum’s only significance is that we feel unhappy and we want change. Whatever the result that feeling will remain.

Recently I spoke on the same platform with a Tory and a Liberal. They said they would abide by the result of the referendum. I said I wouldn’t. I would always listen to any argument for the continuation of the union if one can be found. I have heard none except that change is bad. I asserted a principle. That Scotland is a nation. Nations should govern themselves. Can anything be clearer?

We have different values, we and London. No clearer example can be found than in our belief that education is everyone’s right. ‘Til the rocks melt wi the sun’ said our first minister on the right to a free university education.

I have lived through the last quarter of a union which brought great benefit to many countries including Scotland. I wish I was in my first year of university instead of being 86. Soon I will die. To die will be an awfully big adventure. But not as big an adventure as being young in our newly awakened Scotland.




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lotek
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby lotek » 29 Feb 2012 16:22

Spice is the worm's gonads.

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby DuneFishUK » 29 Feb 2012 18:48

Ian Hamilton wrote:England suffers from it badly today. The England of the shires, of Puck of Pook’s Hill, has gone. England is now London.


That.

I think it's unnecessary to break up the Union (it's symbolic - they won't go 100% independent and the pro-cons cancel each other out) but I don't blame them.

Bring back the Danelaw! :)

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Omphalos » 29 Feb 2012 18:50

Freeeeeeeeedooooooooooooom!

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Robspierre » 29 Feb 2012 23:25

Omphalos wrote:Freeeeeeeeedooooooooooooom!


Doon with troosers!

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby SandChigger » 02 Mar 2012 12:00

:roll:

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby SandRider » 02 Mar 2012 16:18

eye-rollin' Home Rule then, are ye?
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Omphalos » 02 Mar 2012 17:16

SandChigger wrote::roll:



Once yer colonized by wankers, a wanker ye'll always be, no?

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ErasOmnius
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby ErasOmnius » 03 Mar 2012 12:49

Who gets the loot from the offshore oil?

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Robspierre » 03 Mar 2012 15:23

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfIpRkSjW4M&feature=related[/youtube]


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SandRider
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby SandRider » 03 Mar 2012 17:43

ErasOmnius wrote:Who gets the loot from the offshore oil?

no-one believes there's more than 10-15 years of North Sea oil left -
it's actually one of the points of the SNP - once BP has drilled out all the oil,
London cannot claim "national (energy) security" in Scottish waters ....

also, Ian Hamilton's blog has been offline for a month now ...
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby DuneFishUK » 03 Mar 2012 18:03

SandRider wrote:
ErasOmnius wrote:Who gets the loot from the offshore oil?

no-one believes there's more than 10-15 years of North Sea oil left -
it's actually one of the points of the SNP - once BP has drilled out all the oil,
London cannot claim "national (energy) security" in Scottish waters ....

also, Ian Hamilton's blog has been offline for a month now ...

I think the 10-15 number is the easy stuff - it goes up to 30-40 if you include the difficult bits, in the current climate the cost/benefit makes them worthwhile.

Isn't the bigger question: who gets to pay for Royal Bank of Scotland? :P

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby ErasOmnius » 07 Mar 2012 22:55

If Scotland is allowed to go independent, should Wales be independent, as well? I think that almost everyone would agree that Devon and Cornwall should stay in the United Kingdom, but where does it end?

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Robspierre » 08 Mar 2012 01:49

Some just want the Act of Union dissolved and things reverting back to how they were pre-1707. A small number want to dissolve the Act of Crowns which is what brought James I England /VI of Scotland to the throne.

The situation now is not similar to how it was prior to the Act of Union despite having their own parliament again.


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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby chanilover » 08 Mar 2012 13:18

load of whinging about nothing. there's no such thing as home rule in the eu and the silly sods will be bankrupt within 50 years, unless they can replace north sea oil and gas with windmills and irn bru.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby chanilover » 08 Mar 2012 13:20

ErasOmnius wrote:If Scotland is allowed to go independent, should Wales be independent, as well? I think that almost everyone would agree that Devon and Cornwall should stay in the United Kingdom, but where does it end?


wales should be nuked. they're more evil than eye-ran. and devon is english although the cornish are celtic so they might want independence. fuck knows why, my sister moved there and says it's a shit place to live so she's moving back to civilisation.
"You and your buddies and that b*tch Mandy are nothing but a gang of lying, socially maladjusted losers." - St Hypatia of Arrakeen.
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby lotek » 08 Mar 2012 13:32

chanilover wrote:wales should be nuked.


I thought for a second you were talking about wHales, like the sea cows...

I need some rest (and independence !)
Spice is the worm's gonads.

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby ErasOmnius » 13 Mar 2012 11:18

Then I read where the 'Northern League' of Italy wants to be independent, and so does Sicily, from Italy. That isn't going to work, either.

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Freakzilla » 13 Mar 2012 11:26

Nuke them too!
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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Robspierre » 17 Mar 2012 11:57

chanilover wrote:
ErasOmnius wrote:If Scotland is allowed to go independent, should Wales be independent, as well? I think that almost everyone would agree that Devon and Cornwall should stay in the United Kingdom, but where does it end?


wales should be nuked. they're more evil than eye-ran. and devon is english although the cornish are celtic so they might want independence. fuck knows why, my sister moved there and says it's a shit place to live so she's moving back to civilisation.


Gotta love the London centric arrogance ;)

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby DuneFishUK » 17 Mar 2012 15:14

I heard something interesting the other day: If the porridge wogs quit the Union, it's going to leave us English stuck with a permanent Conservative majority.

Not that the other bunch are much better, but if Scotland leaves, the North will follow.

NotOnasander

Re: Scottish Independence

Postby NotOnasander » 17 Mar 2012 18:13

I think it all went to shit when the true catholic dynasty of the English was forced into exile, it's main line died off, but it still has secondary lines existing. Until then, there is no legally recognized crowned sovereign over the shameless heretics of the English Isles. I here they've aligned with Scotland, and even those dirty Dutch republicans. What's next, full Irish independence of the entire island?

Fuck the scots, drop their cross dressing, never bathing asses and let them fuck their sheeps in their rainy, windy oblivion, and back the Catholic Irish to infiltrate London and dispose of the impostors to the crown, and welcome back our true overlords. The Anglicans must be crushed! :Adolf:

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby ErasOmnius » 19 Mar 2012 11:45

Does Scottish independence mean that Scotland gets the islands? Shetlands, Orkneys, and maybe even the Outer Hebrides? Who would decide?

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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Robspierre » 19 Mar 2012 11:55

ErasOmnius wrote:Does Scottish independence mean that Scotland gets the islands? Shetlands, Orkneys, and maybe even the Outer Hebrides? Who would decide?



The islands were all part of Scotland before the Act of Union, they would stay.


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Re: Scottish Independence

Postby Apjak » 19 Mar 2012 14:39

This belongs here somewhere.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3HnMLq8m9U&feature=relmfu[/youtube]


ErasOmnius wrote:Does Scottish independence mean that Scotland gets the islands? Shetlands, Orkneys, and maybe even the Outer Hebrides? Who would decide?



...and for any other questions regarding what belongs to whom in the former empire:
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