I hate to say it as a violence hating person, but "Those who make peaceful revolution
impossible will make violent revolution inevitable".
Maybe these people should arm themselves, visibly, for the next time the police feel brutality is the answer. That should also weed out all the hipster idiots in the protests that are just there for the sake of protesting, they'll be afraid of it escalating to the point where people start getting shot.
Which will leave those who are ok with that prospect.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 02:06
by Drunken Idaho
SandRider wrote:that's what I've been saying ....
I do not repeat do not give a damn what anybody's "issue" is,
as long as it turns out the "civilian police" in full military stormtrooper gear,
injuring, maiming, and god-yes KILLING their "citizens" ....
everytime the Fascist American State shoves it's fist into the people's face,
more & more "average folk" WAKE THE FUCK UP and start asking real, tough questions ...
like, WTF? .... and what do you mean a Defense Department budget process voided Federal Habeas Corpus ? ...
the next 150 years in the "United States" of America ain't gonna be pretty at all,
and I'm goddamn glad I ain't gonna live to see it ....
Why are you always right about everything?
ahnnah wrote:
Mandy wrote:The good ole boys will always be in Congress, but that doesn't mean peaceful protests can't change things. And I don't think the lady holding that sign looks like an asshat.
Peaceful protests can't change corporate greed.
And you're becoming less wrong now. Many occupiers would probably agree with you, but would add that peaceful protests alone will not change corporate greed. Understand that protesters on September 17th were indeed going by example. Peaceful protest got a lot done this year, but I think occupy has gone beyond that now and understands what's next. It's not like they were looking to topple leaders or anything, well except the faceless corporate ones maybe. A few pieces of key legislation could have been the easy way, but instead the establishment chose to spend and oppress, and at the taxpayer's expense no less. By the way, if you want to share any less-PC methods that might help, I'm open to suggestions.
By the way, I'm not a fan of hearing rhetoric like "fight corporate greed" from occupiers or otherwise. A war on greed is the equivalent of a war on terror.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 02:08
by Drunken Idaho
And I appreciate that, guys. Thanks for at least humouring me on this.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 02:10
by Freakzilla
A Thing of Eternity wrote: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable".
Ironic, using a Kennedy quote in this topic.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 02:52
by Drunken Idaho
A Thing of Eternity wrote:I hate to say it as a violence hating person, but "Those who make peaceful revolution
impossible will make violent revolution inevitable".
Maybe these people should arm themselves, visibly, for the next time the police feel brutality is the answer. That should also weed out all the hipster idiots in the protests that are just there for the sake of protesting, they'll be afraid of it escalating to the point where people start getting shot.
Which will leave those who are ok with that prospect.
Works for me!
Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable".
Ironic, using a Kennedy quote in this topic.
Perhaps you'd prefer Mahatma Ghandi?
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Although if he's right, I believe we're past the laughing stage now. OWS has some folks shitting their pants. I can cite some examples...
1. Chairman of the Homeland Security Committee Peter King worries about potential policy influence of occupy protests:
Congressman Peter King (R-N.Y.) is afraid that the growing number of Occupy Wall Street protesters, along with the mounting media coverage of the movement, may end up shaping U.S. government policy like the anti-war protesters did in the 1960s and 1970s.
King was speaking on Laura Ingraham's radio show on Friday when he blasted the protesters as "ragtag mobs" and said he remembers a 1960s left-wing movement that took to the streets and caused policy changes after the media "glorified" the protesters. He hopes that the Occupy Wall Street protesters aren't re-creating the spirit and influence of that historical protest movement.
Yeah, lousy mobs ruining the Vietnam War for everyone! Not to mention all of the civil rights riff-raff!
King's the same bigot conducting those McCarthyesque Muslim hearings, by the way.
2. GOP strategist Frank Luntz is "terrified to death" of occupy:
...Luntz told attendees that he’s “scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I’m frightened to death.” The pollster warned that the movement is “having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism.” So the pollster offered some advice for them about how to fight back. Here’s a few snippets of what he said, according to Moody:
– Don’t Mention Capitalism: Luntz said that his polling research found that “The public…still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral. And if we’re seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we’ve got a problem.”
– Empathize With The 99 Percent Protesters: Luntz instructed attendees to tell protesters that they “get it”: “First off, here are three words for you all: ‘I get it.’ … ‘I get that you’re. I get that you’ve seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system.”
– Don’t Say Bonus: Luntz told Republicans to re-frame the concept of the bonus payment — which bailed-out Wall Street doles out to its employees during holidays — as “pay for performance” instead.
– Don’t Mention The Middle Class Because Americans Don’t Trust Republicans To Defend It: “They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers,” Luntz instructed the audience. “We can say we defend the ‘middle class’ and the public will say, I’m not sure about that. But defending ‘hardworking taxpayers’ and Republicans have the advantage.”
– Don’t Talk About Taxing The Rich: Luntz reminded Republicans that Americans actually do want to tax the rich, so he reccommended they instead say that the government “takes from the rich.”
Frank Luntz is no minor pollster. He is considered to be one of the top political communications experts in the world, having provided consulting to many of the world’s top corporations, politicians, and special interest groups...
3. And I mentioned the bit about the lobbying firm with the million-dollar offer to banks to thwart OWS:
Here's the proposal itself: http://info.publicintelligence.net/OWS-CLGC.pdf
There's one part saying they should figure out who is organizing and funding OWS. They must think it's like the Tea-Party or something.
But this is my favourite part:
It may be easy to dismiss OWS as a ragtag group of protesters but they have demonstrated that they should be treated more like an organized competitor who is very nimble and capable of working the media, coordinating third party support and engaging office holders to do their bidding. To counter that, we have to do the same.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 02:52
by Freakzilla
At least Ghandi wasn't rich from his parent's bootlegging.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 03:10
by Freakzilla
But didn't Ghandi, in a passive way, advocate violent protest?
ahnnah wrote:I prefer to talk out of my butt where politics are concerned.
Oh jayzus aych chroist, it looks like facebook wasn't the only place I was being a jackass last night. Sorry folks, I won't blame it on the booze but I will blame it on the olives. Please ignore my stupidity
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 09:18
by Nekhrun
ahnnah wrote:
ahnnah wrote:I prefer to talk out of my butt where politics are concerned.
Oh jayzus aych chroist, it looks like facebook wasn't the only place I was being a jackass last night. Sorry folks, I won't blame it on the booze but I will blame it on the olives. Please ignore my stupidity
We get posts like this one so often that we should start collecting them in their own thread.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 11:18
by Freakzilla
Nekhrun wrote:
ahnnah wrote:
ahnnah wrote:I prefer to talk out of my butt where politics are concerned.
Oh jayzus aych chroist, it looks like facebook wasn't the only place I was being a jackass last night. Sorry folks, I won't blame it on the booze but I will blame it on the olives. Please ignore my stupidity
We get posts like this one so often that we should start collecting them in their own thread.
I think my problem is that I don't drink as often as I used to an my tolerance has dropped.
Yeah, that's it.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 12:23
by A Thing of Eternity
I don't know anything about Kennedy, it's just a good quote.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 12:29
by Mandy
I don't think that anyone thinks protests can put a stop to greed, it's probably a built in thing to want more... but what can be changed is our government's response to greed. There must be a way to allow corporations to go on making money without hurting everyone else. It's not as if the balance of power hasn't always tilted towards the wealthy, but I think they've let it tilt too far. Politicians, no matter what they say, seem to be most interested in keeping their jobs at any cost.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 12:44
by A Thing of Eternity
We have a little better balance up here, part of why we didn't fall quite as hard in the recession and had a delayed effect (we were doing totally fine until about a year or almost 2 later at the company I work for), but we're far from having it right. Better regulation (not necessarily more, just better) and better policing helps/would help.
There also needs to be more serious criminal reprecussions for white collar crooks. Greed is one of the very few motivators for crime that actually IS deterred by harsher sentences (harsh sentences being useless in any kind of crimes of desperation or passion).
And the public needs to step up and vote with our dollars more. So many people like to complain about how giant corporations are messing everything up and neglect to remember that they've been handing these people their funding.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 22 Dec 2011 15:52
by Mandy
This article is in regard to SOPA, but I think it also applies to protests in general, and how Congress interacts with constituents, and what we should do to help Congress do the right thing. http://www.informationdiet.com/blog/rea ... ess-works-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is a button for adding youtube tags above the message body when creating a post, just highlight the link and click that - or you can just frame it with this: [YouTube][/YouTube]
There is a button for adding youtube tags above the message body when creating a post, just highlight the link and click that - or you can just frame it with this: [YouTube][/YouTube]
It has to be a direct link to the video though unless to want to MetaCuddlefish it up.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 30 Dec 2011 18:25
by Omphalos
I tried to fix it, but Nekh is right. But look at what i did. That's the way.
Re: Occupy Protests
Posted: 30 Dec 2011 18:54
by Nekhrun
Omphalos wrote:I tried to fix it, but Nekh is right. But look at what i did. That's the way.
This is the way:
Though I don't support the contents of the video (for no reason other than I didn't watch it yet). I tend towards Crysknife's view on these issues and I would describe myself as a Socialist.
They must think it's like the Tea-Party or something.
