Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

This could be politics to some, history or sci-fi to others, but I have to ask: The Moon landings, real or fake, what do you think, and why?

Oh, and I choose "politics" for this topic because the current Constellation program situation was what had given rise to this question (that and the science regarding our planet's radiation bands).

Real, and anyone who honestly thinks otherwise needs to go learn some basic science. Every single thing that's ever been put forth as "proof" or "evidence" against the moon landings can be explained to be 100% bogus by a 10 year old.

Try me, there's not one single argument I can't counter. EDIT: unless the whackos have some new ones, then I might have to take 5-10 minutes to think, depending on how good of a job they did.

The fact that people even consider that the landings were fake based on the commonly brought up evidence makes me question the future of our species, it seriously does. I'd take someone more seriously arguing pretty much ANY other insane conspiracy theory, including the lizard people one!

Not saying you're one of these utter failures of human beings Simon, just saying that those people are in fact utter failures as human beings.

EDIT: Write this shit down in history people, this may be my single most opinionated and cut and dry harsh post EVER. Seriously, I've just had this conversation in real life and it blows my mind, I'd way rather argue with someone about the Earth being flat.

Real, of course.

Read up on the Space Program. Every mission was an incremental development and test of the equipment and training needed to get to the moon. If you think nothing happened before july 20, 1969, then yes, it seems unbelievable that we did it. If you see what went before, it's *still* incredible, but believable.

HBJ

And I'm bored so I seriously do want someone to try and bring something up that suggests we didn't go there!

Lol, no argument here. (Though I'm still curious about the specifics of the radiation band, the question being more like "How big a risk did they take exactly?" I wasn't aware of the added danger from nuclear testing of the time.) Seems that younger people (20-ish down) tend to doubt it, speaking of the majority I've encountered. Though of course their arguments tend to be cosmetic, in relation to film quality and edits the NASA public relations guys did back in the day. Rarely a science based approach, say on the gravity or light refraction.

*Also, pure trivia, who was your favorite capsule flyer (U.S or Russian, pre-Shuttle)?
Myself, I like John Young. His whole "I was to busy doing my job to be afraid" attitude is just right.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:EDIT: Write this shit down in history people, this may be my single most opinionated and cut and dry harsh post EVER. Seriously, I've just had this conversation in real life and it blows my mind, I'd way rather argue with someone about the Earth being flat.

Harsh but right on the money. The flat Earth theory is a lot more entertaining, true - "but planes fly straight, if the Earth was round, they'd go into space" is one of my favourites Also;
"“It's easy to see how such a picture could fool the untrained eye"
- Samuel Shenton, president of the Flat Earth Society, when shown a picture of an Earthrise seen from the moon by a journalist.

Troll alert!!!!

http://www.space.com/12835-nasa-apollo- ... s-lro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Freakzilla wrote:http://www.space.com/12835-nasa-apollo- ... s-lro.html

Fake! Made in a (very tall) sound studio by... Kubrick. Yeah. He's not really dead, obviously. Geez, you sheeple will believe anything...

We don't know anything, except what we're told.
Sheeple will believe just about anything.
People are sheeple, and we're all people.

Simon wrote:Rarely a science based approach, say on the gravity or light refraction.

Not surprising, given the way science has been downplayed in education.

Serkanner wrote:Troll alert!!!!

Not really, not this one, I don't think.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Real, and anyone who honestly thinks otherwise needs to go learn some basic science. Every single thing that's ever been put forth as "proof" or "evidence" against the moon landings can be explained to be 100% bogus by a 10 year old.

Try me, there's not one single argument I can't counter. EDIT: unless the whackos have some new ones, then I might have to take 5-10 minutes to think, depending on how good of a job they did.

The fact that people even consider that the landings were fake based on the commonly brought up evidence makes me question the future of our species, it seriously does. I'd take someone more seriously arguing pretty much ANY other insane conspiracy theory, including the lizard people one!

Not saying you're one of these utter failures of human beings Simon, just saying that those people are in fact utter failures as human beings.

EDIT: Write this shit down in history people, this may be my single most opinionated and cut and dry harsh post EVER. Seriously, I've just had this conversation in real life and it blows my mind, I'd way rather argue with someone about the Earth being flat.

FUCKING A RIGHT ON DUDE! I honestly cannot take anyone seriously who questions the legitimacy of the moon landings. Their credibility and character are immediately called into question.

Good good good. Glad to see I don't have to smash any heads together.

Very few, even of the younger generation, actually doubt the landings. People under 20 are just having a laugh for conspiracy's sake - there's nothing amazing to them about going to the moon, why would they doubt it? To them it's just something we did way back in history (to me as well frankly), if you learn the science yes it's impressive, but until you learn the science it actually isn't impressive at all, it sounds damned easy in fact. Shoot a fucking rocket up there, land, come home, what's the big deal?

I was 8. I remember it.

I can't swear that it happened for real, but I did see the televised coverage...

Simon wrote:Lol, no argument here. (Though I'm still curious about the specifics of the radiation band, the question being more like "How big a risk did they take exactly?" I wasn't aware of the added danger from nuclear testing of the time.)

Hard to say how big risk the Apollo guys were taking, but they definitely did and were lucky that no Solar flares or Coronal Mass Ejections took place while they were out there. First of all, it is true that there can be some radiation at the Radiation Belt (thus the name!) and this is varying coherently with the 11-year Solar cycle. I even have a paper here showing that the highly energetic electron count can differ by a factor of 10 between the minimum and maximum - with some occasional extreme peaks. And Simon, you're right; this could pose a problem to astronauts just as it may do to satellites in geostationary orbit (which goes through this belt). And not only that, the Moon itself is mostly outside the protection of Earth's magnetic field and anything or anyone trying to take a walk on the surface will have to deal directly with whatever is thrown out from the Sun. But from what I understand the Apollo missions took place during minimal activity of the Sun and luckily avoided these nasty events.

I join the others with the statement that the Moon landings were true and I think it's an insult to the 100,000 people who made it come true to say otherwise. Unfortunately I have doubts we will go anywhere anytime soon mostly because of these radiation problems.. it's a bitch to solve.

Someone please invent an anti-gravity machine?

ULFsurfer wrote: Someone please invent an anti-gravity machine?

Ha, I know, right as soon as we figure out how to harness negative energy!

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again - we're not going to do ANYTHING signficant (in the way us SF people think of significant, I'm not saying what hasn't already been done isn't!) in space until we have mining and manufacturing in space, ie: the moon. Until then we ain't going anywhere.

Floating skateboards.

2015!

@Lundse- "Flat Earth Society", Wow. Now that you say it, I remember it, and again, WOW. People are cra-zy.

@Sandchigger- No trolling (I think? lol), the subject has just been on my mind, thought I'd see what you guys thought.
As for witnessing it, what was that like? I mean even today, to look at the footage, it's not so sharp. So on the old sets from the 60's I imagine it was even further diminished. What were your impressions at the time? How'd everyone around you ("the adults") react?

@ULFsurfer- Great response. And I agree, any serious proposition that the landings were faked, is insulting to the 400,000+ who made it happen (Egyptians are like-wise annoyed by suggestions that Atlantians built the Great Pyramids lol).

@A Thing of Eternity- Regarding the industrialization of space, I agree there as well. The moon is definitely the first step, but I think the entire solar system needs to be opened up before we make "SF fan type" progress. Sadly the estimates I'm hearing are, on average, 500 or so years, give or take a couple hundred depending on who you ask.

Buzz Aldrin's thoughts on the subject...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOo6aHSY8hU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Simon wrote: @A Thing of Eternity- Regarding the industrialization of space, I agree there as well. The moon is definitely the first step, but I think the entire solar system needs to be opened up before we make "SF fan type" progress. Sadly the estimates I'm hearing are, on average, 500 or so years, give or take a couple hundred depending on who you ask.

Oh definitely, my main thing is just that we can't keep blasting shit into orbit. We'll never ever build anything signficant up there that way. We need to be mining and manufacturing up there in low grav before we could even build something puny like a space station that could house a hundred people.

I got into an argument on here once about the subject of building space stations to house people in case something happened to the Earth. The reality is that if we even wanted to build one that would house maybe a thousand people we'd bankrupt the entire planet, and it would maybe be able to last, oh, 30 years tops is my guess.

We need to figure out how to make mining automated, then put the bloody robots on the moon and let them just build more of themselves and stockpile materials until we're capable of doing anything with it. Then we can get rocking on it.

Of course something like a space elevator could work as well.

I was 3 when they landed so don't remember exactly, but have been enthusiast about the space program since I was about 7. Everyone has the right to doubt or question anything, but that doesnt make them right or less stupid.

I told someone the other day we started sending probes to mars in the mid sixties and on into the mid seventies with landers, they didn't believe me, they thought pathfinder was our first !! I said google it fuckhead, Mariner, Voyager and Viking.

The moon landings are pure reality, and people who challenge it are closer kin to neanderthal than homosapian, but are allowed to question what they like. I just hope they aren't breeding.

Simon wrote:@Sandchigger- No trolling (I think? lol), the subject has just been on my mind, thought I'd see what you guys thought.
As for witnessing it, what was that like? I mean even today, to look at the footage, it's not so sharp. So on the old sets from the 60's I imagine it was even further diminished. What were your impressions at the time? How'd everyone around you ("the adults") react?

Even at 8 I was the weird geeky kid into Star Trek and science fiction, so I was in seventh heaven, glued to the tube. Everyone else seemed to take it all matter-of-factly.

Was it HBJ that pointed out that the moon landing was the culmination of a long series of experimental/test missions in Earth orbit and one lunar orbital flight? It was something people had lived with in the background for years, and I never heard anything about it all being faked. (Of course, I was just a boy and we just had the news from the three main networks and local radio stations. Plus the local papers.) It was years before I heard any of the conspiracy theory nuttiness...

trang wrote:I was 3 when they landed so don't remember exactly, but have been enthusiast about the space program since I was about 7. Everyone has the right to doubt or question anything, but that doesnt make them right or less stupid.

Oh yeah, to clarify my earlier rant, I don't have an issue with people questioning the moon landing(s), it's the evidence they use that makes me think they're idiots.

Kinda like 9/11 (hmmm, that's today, weird...), I'm not saying the US gov couldn't have been involved, I'm saying most of the evidence put forth is hogwash.

The moon landings are pure reality, and people who challenge it are closer kin to neanderthal than homosapian, but are allowed to question what they like. I just hope they aren't breeding.