We got bin Laden!

[A Thing of Eternity]

Oh and one more thing, you seriously think he looks abnormally unhealthy in ANY of those pics? I would expect him to look more burnt out and sick if he had the bloody FLU, let alone was closing in on death!

Seriously man, if you fell for somebody else telling you that those pics show a dying man, you need to back away and re-evaluate how you view reality, because it's clearly through a really warped lense! Time for some deep self examination I'd say.

I really don't want to be mean about it, but only a total fool would fall for someone telling them those pictures showed someone's health going down the drain.

[Robspierre]

Seriously, it's Mother's Day.

Did you take time to call your mom or spend time with her? Or are you sitting at your computer thinking, "I am right and will beat them into submission!"

Go outside, take a walk, smell the flowers, look at pretty girls, laugh a little. There is far more to life than sitting alone in a smelly, dark room arguing about stuff you have no clue about.

Excuse me, the girls are doing a Tudor marathon tonight, got to run.

Rob

[A Thing of Eternity]

Aw man, I've got zero girls around right now. I just dropped my ex off at the airport (she's headed to Ghana to learn about monkeys!) and I need to go find some females to be around...

[Kojiro]

I'm not implying anything. What I will tell you — since you clearly don't have an inkling of a clue — is that the available lighting would account for somewhere between 90 to 99 percent of the differences in those images. If you knew anything at all about photography/videography — which you clearly do not — you'd know how important light is. So, again, we have a stellar example of you speaking directly from your asshole.

As far as the third image goes, here's a radical thought: maybe he was tired. Maybe his terrorist buddies shot that footage just before sleepy-time. Or first thing in the morning. Or just before OBL was going to go take a massive crap, which made him cranky. No massive conspiracy, no forensic analysis of the footage needed ... it's just a tired old man.

Did you forget what the terrorism analyst said?

CNN: The last interview you did with bin Laden was back in 1997. How different was the Osama bin Laden we saw in this tape, the interview taped late in October of 2001?

BERGEN: He's actually quite similar. I mean, in terms of his demeanor and his voice -- these kinds of things are quite similar. The big difference is that he's aged enormously between '97 and October of last year.

This is a man who was clearly not well. I mean, as you see from these pictures here, he's really, by December he's looking pretty terrible. But by December, of course, that tape that was aired then, he's barely moving the left side of his body. So he's clearly got diabetes. He has low blood pressure. He's got a wound in his foot. He's apparently got dialysis ... for kidney problems.

I mean, this is a man who has a number of health problems, apart from the fact that anybody running around the Afghan mountains is not going to be in great shape.

So I guess Bergen was just "pulling it out of his ass" as well. This guy was a friggin analyst for chrissake. No, you're pulling it out of your ass.

I'm serious man, if you or anyone else looks at those 3 photos and sees a person who is wasting away, getting sick, dying, you are delusional. You should stick to your other evidence, because I spend a lot of time around brown folks, and I can tell you Osama looks totally FINE in that last picture.

You too. "Winter." Give me a fucking break. Afghanistan's a bit dry for such bullshit. And look at you say "brown people" so casually, you racist bastard.

And he does not look "fine." He looks downright awful.

[TheDukester]

This guy was a friggin analyst for chrissake.

Wow, an analyst! How awesome! And we all know that they are never wrong.

Good lord, you're a fucking retard.

I went easy on you before. The real answer is that, like everyone else who has looked at those images, I really don't see a lot of differences. I see no evidence at all of someone dying. None. I see an old man with a funky beard; that's it. Any differences that are there are easily explained with lighting and fatigue, as has already been spelled out for you.

If you really think that those images are proof of anything — rather than you just being a dickhead troll — you need to be checked into a mental health facility. I've never been more serious in my life. If you see those images as some sort of evidence, then you are fucked up inside your head. For real.

Those images prove nothing; in fact, they go a long way toward working against all of this wingnut bullshit you've been spouting.

At this point, I'm taking Rob's advice and ejecting you from my life forever through the magic of the "ignore" function. You're either a fucked-up crazy person, a complete asshole, or a relentless troll — or, likely, a combination of all three — and I really have no time for you. You should feel free to die in a grease fire.

[Kojiro]

This guy was a friggin analyst for chrissake.

Wow, an analyst! How awesome! And we all know that they are never wrong.

Good lord, you're a fucking retard.

I went easy on you before. The real answer is that, like everyone else who has looked at those images, I really don't see a lot of differences.

Then you need your eyes checked.

[TheDukester]

Ah, blessed silence ...

[A Thing of Eternity]

I'm serious man, if you or anyone else looks at those 3 photos and sees a person who is wasting away, getting sick, dying, you are delusional. You should stick to your other evidence, because I spend a lot of time around brown folks, and I can tell you Osama looks totally FINE in that last picture.

You too. "Winter." Give me a fucking break. Afghanistan's a bit dry for such bullshit. And look at you say "brown people" so casually, you racist bastard.

And he does not look "fine." He looks downright awful.

You really see what you want don't you? I specifically wrote in that I fully expected you to call BS on the whole winter thing. I specifically wrote that I was using my experience watching brown people who (in the winter) don't get enough sun and quickly drop down to less than half the previous darkness of their skin tone. I specifically said my point was to illustrate that looking "pale" means NOTHING, because people of a medium dark complexion rapidly shift in regards to the darkness of their skins. They are very sensitive to lack of sunlight...

... and wasn't it YOU who said something about hiding in a cave post-911?

You deliberately have misread what I said.

He looks fine kiddo. Like healthy and hale, if a bit tired or stressed out. I could show you pictures of myself looking closer to death than that fellow looks.

And yes, I say "brown" referring to a person's skin tone very casually, because it's not racist, it's descriptive. Am I racist when I call a redhead a redhead? A white person white? A person with blue eyes blue eyed? Middle Easterners, Indians, Hispanics, most "black" people - they are BROWN. They are as brown as I am pink skinned with brown dots, as brown as I am green eyed! White people aren't white, black people aren't black - but brown people sure as hell are brown! (Would I be sexist if I called a woman a chick? Homophobic for calling a homosexual gay? I think not!)

I have a deep, deep love for "brown" people. If you think me calling them brown makes me racist then you really are just a child with only a loose grasp on the world around himself. I have a deep love for all ethnicities, including my own. I don't pretend that there aren't phenological and cultural differences between all of us (like you seem to be asking me to pretend, what should I call brown people? Orange?), I love those differences.

I'm the least racist person you'll ever meet kid. The most racist thing in my mind is that I'm jealous of brown people because I think their skin is pretty, and I wish I had it myself (wouldn't that be cool, with red hair and green eyes?!) and I wish I had it so that the sun wasn't so deadly to me. So yeah, I'm racist I guess, because I have a genetic weakness that will leave me with skin cancer later in life, and I'm mildly jealous of those who will not have this problem (same as I'm mildly jealous of people who can play guitar better than I can, or write great novels when I struggle to).

EDIT: Is it weird too that I wasn't even offended by being called racist? (I'll have to remember that I'm racist the next time I'm at the annual protest against the white power morons in my city ) I think I was just offended to be of the same species as someone dumb enough to think that I, AToE/Alan, rabid aficionado of all things "ethnic" and lover of exotic food, women and culture (especially the women though, I can't tell a lie), would be a racist person? Yeah, I think that's it.

[Kojiro]

I'm serious man, if you or anyone else looks at those 3 photos and sees a person who is wasting away, getting sick, dying, you are delusional. You should stick to your other evidence, because I spend a lot of time around brown folks, and I can tell you Osama looks totally FINE in that last picture.

You too. "Winter." Give me a fucking break. Afghanistan's a bit dry for such bullshit. And look at you say "brown people" so casually, you racist bastard.

And he does not look "fine." He looks downright awful.

You really see what you want don't you? I specifically wrote in that I fully expected you to call BS on the whole winter thing. I specifically wrote that I was using my experience watching brown people who (in the winter) don't get enough sun and quickly drop down to less than half the previous darkness of their skin tone. I specifically said my point was to illustrate that looking "pale" means NOTHING, because people of a medium dark complexion rapidly shift in regards to the darkness of their skins. They are very sensitive to lack of sunlight...

... and wasn't it YOU who said something about hiding in a cave post-911?

You deliberately have misread what I said.

Considering that he was running from cave to cave, I highly doubt he wasn't getting enough sun. Like Duke, you really need to get your eyes checked. He's not only paler, his features are thinner, his hair's grown more gray, his eyes have become sunken. I know what it looks like when a person is wasting away, because I watched my own grandfather's health rapidly decline after he was diagnosed with diabetes. Osama looks like a skeleton in that third picture. He doesn't look well at all.

[E. LeGuille]

Let's not forget, despite whatever medical issues he may have had...

He still had TONS of money. If the Mafia can get Doctor's to housecall for their dons, I don't see why bin Laden can't get one to cavecall.


Also, let's take two things into consideration: Lighting, and being on the run with the entire US MILITARY on your ass isn't going to make for happy mornings.

[A Thing of Eternity]

He looks like a skeleton, really? I think not.

Running from cave to cave? So in order to NOT drop in skin tone, he'd need to be spending the same amount of time in the sun as before he went into hiding? Sounds to me like someone who's not doing a very good job of hiding! My ex dropped down to just a few shades darker than I am after just a couple months of staying inside. Inside a house with LOTS of sunlight coming in through the windows, and walking to the bus to go to school or work every day.

She spent probably 10 times as much time in the sun as someone "in hiding" would, regardless of how often they were moving around. Fail buddy, fail. (I'm not just referencing her by the way, I'm thinking of all the Pakistani people I used to work with in Vancouver (where there also isn't much of a winter by the way) and the Indian people I know (quite a few).

[A Thing of Eternity]

Also, you're completely ignoring the complete and utter lighting differences between those photos. This guy has massive cheekbones in all 3 pictures - what is making him look thinner and more haggard in the last 2 is the angle and amount of lighting, pure and simple. The last picture is of exceedingly poor quality over all.

Look at a range of photos of any person and you'll see how much the angle of their face and lighting can make them look heavier or skinnier. I look like I weigh 230 pounds in my drivers photo, other photo's from the same time make me look like I'm 180 lbs.

[Kojiro]

He looks like a skeleton, really? I think not.

Running from cave to cave? So in order to NOT drop in skin tone, he'd need to be spending the same amount of time in the sun as before he went into hiding? Sounds to me like someone who's not doing a very good job of hiding! My ex dropped down to just a few shades darker than I am after just a couple months of staying inside. Inside a house with LOTS of sunlight coming in through the windows, and walking to the bus to go to school or work every day.

She spent probably 10 times as much time in the sun as someone "in hiding" would, regardless of how often they were moving around. Fail buddy, fail. (I'm not just referencing her by the way, I'm thinking of all the Pakistani people I used to work with in Vancouver (where there also isn't much of a winter by the way) and the Indian people I know (quite a few).

Still concentrating only on skin tone, eh? "Oh, how could I be racist?"

Pale alone = Maybe not enough sun. Pale + weight loss + rapid graying = Something wrong.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Still concentrating only on skin tone, eh? "Oh, how could I be racist?"

Pale alone = Maybe not enough sun. Pale + weight loss + rapid graying = Something wrong.

That's right, I'm not racist. I'm discussing skin tone IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT SKIN TONE! Also, "only" concentrating on skin tone? Did you even READ my posts? My rather extensive discussion of how lighting and angle can make someone look thinner?

"Only" , Buddy even you must be able to see that you're reading only what you want here, you have to question your mental function when stuff like this starts happening.

Also, graying? Dude, look at his clothes - they're also really greyed in that last pic! You goof, it's a grey pic! It's so poorly taken that it's almost lacking in colour entirely!

[E. LeGuille]

Look at a range of photos of any person and you'll see how much the angle of their face and lighting can make them look heavier or skinnier. I look like I weigh 230 pounds in my drivers photo, other photo's from the same time make me look like I'm 180 lbs.

Should have bought a Canon T1i EOS DSLR, with a Class 6 SDHC card. Would have made for some great HD movies and pictures.

To pull the race card is the last defense of someone who is wrong, by the way. Just saying.

[A Thing of Eternity]

And seriously man, calling me racist is just childish. There's absolutely nothing racist about me discussing skin tone when you were using skin tone as one of your arguments. I was comparing him to other people of similar complexion that I have watched completely change colour in just a few months while perfectly healthy.

Why on earth would you think I'm racist? Anyone who's read my posts for any length of time should know that I am near-violent in my defense of all minorities, whether that minority be in regards to ethnicity, gender, sexuality, religion, you name it.

Calling me racist is just plain goofy man, you're just making yourself look like a child who's grasping for insults wherever he can find them.

[Kojiro]

Still concentrating only on skin tone, eh? "Oh, how could I be racist?"

Pale alone = Maybe not enough sun. Pale + weight loss + rapid graying = Something wrong.

That's right, I'm not racist. I'm discussing skin tone IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT SKIN TONE!

It is not only about skin tone.

Also, "only" concentrating on skin tone? Did you even READ my posts? My rather extensive discussion of how lighting and angle can make someone look thinner?

He doesn't look thinner, he IS thinner. His eye sockets alone are progressively becoming more pronounced in each picture. The space between lid and eyebrow increased dramatically.

"Only" , Buddy even you must be able to see that you're reading only what you want here, you have to question your mental function when stuff like this starts happening.

Also, graying? Dude, look at his clothes - they're also really greyed in that last pic! You goof, it's a grey pic! It's so poorly taken that it's almost lacking in colour entirely!

Look at his sideburns. Where in the first there was still black hair, in the third, it's almost completely white.

Oh, and "brown people" is goofy. For god's sake, complexion is a word. Use it.

[TheDukester]

LOL — I'm seeing a lot of this:



It makes me laugh. Silly wingnut is silly.

[A Thing of Eternity]

The eye socket thing is a pain in the ass for "brown people". "Brown people" tend to periodically get dark shadows around their eyes, some days it's almost gone, some days it's there very obviously. It often has to do with simply how much sleep they've gotten. I'm dead serious when I say that it can completely change how a Middle Eastern or Indian person looks from day to day.

"Brown people" is what I get to call brown people. Because I'm a nice person who means no harm. I also get to call NewFoundLanders Newfies, because I grew up with a bunch of them and say it with such a loving smile on my face that it's obviously a term of endearment, just like when I call medium-complexion people brown.

Maybe I should call people with green eyes by the technical term people with irises that have "low to moderate amounts of melanin and probably represent the interaction of multiple variants within the OCA2 and other genes" according to wiki.

Graying hair? Let me go back and take a look to see if that's a result of the photograph or really gray hair. Unlike you I am willing to re-examine things when someone points out a possibly flaw in my argument.


But considering how wrong you are about how skinny he looks, and how much his complexion means he's dying (or even that his complexion even did in fact change, those photos each have COMPLETELY different lighting which could easily account for it), if "graying hair" is all that's left of your argument then I'd say it's pretty much busted man.

[E. LeGuille]

Still concentrating only on skin tone, eh? "Oh, how could I be racist?"

Also, "only" concentrating on skin tone? Did you even READ my posts? My rather extensive discussion of how lighting and angle can make someone look thinner?

He doesn't look thinner, he IS thinner. His eye sockets alone are progressively becoming more pronounced in each picture. The space between lid and eyebrow increased dramatically.

Okay... that's called Aging. In 10 years? I'd look a lot different too. Because... we... age.

[A Thing of Eternity]

E. LeGuille - the pics are from 3 different months all in 2001.

Now, about the beard becoming more grey - nope. I admit the below is extremely hasty, but I see exactly the same amount of grey hair to black hair, only extremely extremely slight differences that are mostly caused by differences in the angle he's holding his head at (starting from the left each pic becomes less straight on and closer to a side view, thusly showing off more of his splendid (and it really is excellent) side-beard.

Also the last pic does show the "black" parts of his beard looking lighter in colour, but so does every other black or dark object in the photo.

I'm not trying to argue pointlessly here, there really is no more grey hair from pic to pic. The amount of black hair is THE SAME.

[Kojiro]

But considering how wrong you are about how skinny he looks, and how much his complexion means he's dying (or even that his complexion even did in fact change, those photos each have COMPLETELY different lighting which could easily account for it), if "graying hair" is all that's left of your argument then I'd say it's pretty much busted man.

I am not wrong. I can cut salad on those cheekbones of his in the third picture.

And aging? It's gradual. This? It was a period of three months!

Edit: No, the black on the sideburns is thinner. And his hair, hair? It's black in the first, white in the third.

[A Thing of Eternity]

But considering how wrong you are about how skinny he looks, and how much his complexion means he's dying (or even that his complexion even did in fact change, those photos each have COMPLETELY different lighting which could easily account for it), if "graying hair" is all that's left of your argument then I'd say it's pretty much busted man.

I am not wrong. I can cut salad on those cheekbones of his in the third picture.

Absolutely, and it's more of a side angle, (making them more prominant) and the lighting is exceedingly poor. He has massive protruding cheekbones in all 3 pics.

I don't know if you just like trolling, or if you really don't understand how much of a stretch you're making when you say he looks like he's dying.

And aging? It's gradual. This? It was a period of three months!

That was E. LeGuille, I pointed that mistake out.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Edit: No, the black on the sideburns is thinner. And his hair, hair? It's black in the first, white in the third.

No man, the black on the sideburns is the thinnest in the FIRST pic. Take another look. It's all about angles. EDIT: Want to refine this statement. In the first pic, his left sideburn looks more black, and the right one less, then in the 3rd pic, it's the opposite... see where this is going?

And his hair we can barely see, and the last pic doesn't show it being any lighter than you'd expect considering how the rest of the photo is lighter as well.

Man, I don't know how you think ANY real judgements can be made based on that last pic, it's so poorly lit, and poor quality. Of course he looks more haggard.

[Kojiro]

But considering how wrong you are about how skinny he looks, and how much his complexion means he's dying (or even that his complexion even did in fact change, those photos each have COMPLETELY different lighting which could easily account for it), if "graying hair" is all that's left of your argument then I'd say it's pretty much busted man.

I am not wrong. I can cut salad on those cheekbones of his in the third picture.

Absolutely, and it's more of a side angle, (making them more prominant) and the lighting is exceedingly poor. He has massive protruding cheekbones in all 3 pics.

Yes, they're present, but they grow sharper in each successive picture

And aging? It's gradual. This? It was a period of three months!

That was E. LeGuille, I pointed that mistake out.

I know it was E. I just didn't feel like quoting more text.

No man, the black on the sideburns is the thinnest in the FIRST pic. Take another look. It's all about angles.

No. Wrong. It's the thinnest in the third. You are viewing these from left to right, are you not?