Jᴀᴄᴜʀᴜᴛᴜ - Tʜᴇ Cᴀsᴛ Oᴜᴛ

We can only hope this spreads like wildfire throughout the middle east. I've seen reports of trouble starting in Gaza now.

Rumour has it Mubarak is stepping down this evening. I hope it's true. I'm keeping an eye on Al Jazeera right now, they said he will address the people of Egypt soon.

The Army is going to take over until they can stage elections.

Or not...

Not good.

Things will go seriously wrong today.

Mubarak resigns, hands power to military

CAIRO — Egypt's vice president says Hosni Mubarak has resigned as president and handed control to the military.

Car horns were heard around Cairo in celebration after Vice President Omar Suleiman made the announcement on national TV on Friday.

"In these difficult circumstances that the country is passing through, President Hosni Mubarak has decided to leave the position of the presidency," Suleiman said. He has commissioned the armed forces council to direct the issues of the state."

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

CAIRO (AP) — Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has stepped down and handed power to the military.

I've heard rumors he had a stroke.

propaganda to save face - remember these are still Arabs here ... stepping down due to "health concerns" is not the same
as being "forced from office" ... like when American politicians resign to "spend more time w/ their family" ...

I think he finally got the call from the generals ... step down or we'll have to oust you ... since the days of the UAR,
the Army has been the Real Power in Egypt ... as long as the government didn't interfere with their operations and
plans, and kept the population under control, the generals have tried to have a "hands off" policy ... so the corruption
and oppression and so forth from the government didn't concern them ... riots in the street and US Congressmen talking
about cutting funding and US-Egyptian military interaction gets their attention ... I think they gave him enough time to
"do the right thing", step down, call for more fraudulent elections, etc.


meet the New Boss
same as the Old Boss

Baraka Bryan wrote:protests in Iran are picking up

Luckily our military is RIGHT THERE.

Palestinians are protesting both Hamas in Gaza and the PA in the West Bank.

With this no-fly-zone over Libya I have to say that I'm undecided weather I support it or not. On the positive It has the approval of the United Nations, there are no foreign troops on the ground and it's not based on some lie (totally unlike Iraq).

However there are two issues I am concerned about. Is the no-fly-zone REALLY going to work? Will there be a long protracted war or stalemate or will the rebels really march on Tripoli and introduce democracy in the end? If not it is a complete wasted effort. We will just have to wait and see. Second I need some clarification on what the media keep saying about Gaddafi 'killing his own people'. Is he just bombing, shooting and shelling people holding the guns and firing at his forces, or is he taking ethnic and religious minorities women and children included and putting them in gas chambers? Just some clarification.

The only problem with the "no-fly zone" is that you have to take out enemy air defenses, which means bombing ground targets... I heard they started this past weekend.

Innocent bystanders will be killed. But that's what they get for standing next to surface-to-air missles, huh?

yeah, WAR !!

the "problem" with a no-fly zone over a sovereign nation is that it is an illegal Act of War ....

during an internal conflict several other nations have now committed acts of war against Libya,
nevermind that it will not be seen or presented that way by the various governments involved
or their media ...

and god knows we've been thru all this before, but Lrn2Engrish: "weather" = atmospheric phenomena

The clarification matters because if it is simply crushing descent, other countries should not intervene because then we would be intervening all the time. Let's see: Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar, China (remember Tianaman Square) and many many more do crush descent by force. This is merely an absence of democracy and democracy should not and cannot be put in by outside forces. Example: Afghanistan is not really a democracy but we all keep trying to enforce it.

If it is outright genocide like Nazi Germany, Rwanda, Cambodia, Ukraine (soviet era) then it is our moral obligation as human beings to intervene to stop it. And often we don't which is just sad.

Nebiros wrote:If it is outright genocide like Nazi Germany, Rwanda, Cambodia, Ukraine (soviet era) then it is our moral obligation as human beings to intervene to stop it. And often we don't which is just sad.

At how many kills does your "morality" kick in? Ten, a hundred, a million?

lrn2engrish asshat ....

descent = to go down(wards)

dissent = arguing with the boss

Neb - I don't think anyone is going to argue that "we" (the West) haven't failed time and time again to intervene when we should have - but that's not an excuse not to do it now. Helping at least some people is better than helping nobody at all, and hell, if it puts us on a trend to help more people then so be it.

(Assuming "we" are doing the right thing here)

horse-shit.

it's interfering in a civil war in a sovereign nation;
and there are no two-ways-about-it, imposing and forcibly maintaining
a "no-fly-zone" over a sovereign nation is an Act of War .... an unprovoked
Act of War, at that ... France, Germany, them English Twits & the US Federals
have not been attacked by Libya, are not defending their homelands against an
attack, and for goddamn sure don't give a fuck about "bringing democracy" to
any little fucking brown people ....

let's suppose the Shia in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia, and the other Sunni tribes
the Sa'ud clan kicked the shit out of and subjugated in the 1920s decide they've had enough
of the Saudis and their insane Wahhabi Islam, and start a revolution .... the US Federals have a
ring thru the Saudis nose, so we know whose side they'll be on ... let's say, for an example,
China decides that they want to bring "peace & democracy" to all the arabs on the peninsula
who don't happen to be Saudi, and arm the shit out of the revolutionaries and set up a "no-fly-zone"
and start dictating, at gunpoint, which side the bread's gonna be buttered on ....

or hell, more realistically, what if Iran and their sockpuppets in the new Iraqi government
decide to come to the aid of their Shia brethren ? how long will Glenn Beck let THAT shit stand ?

I could care less what some shitheel a-rab military dictator the CIA put in power during the Cold War
does to his own fucking people, and I don't care what they do to him ... revolt, buy lotto tickets, fuck-ever ...

there is no way to escape the fact that the military action currently underway against Libya by them meddlin' White Folk is fucking illegal.

and for the love of god, the US has not fought a war since 1812 that they didn't somehow claim was bringing "peace & freedom & democracy"
to some other little brown (or black)(or yellow) folk; and most of them people STILL ain't seen no peace or freedom, just a whole shitload
of bombs with "Made in the USA" on the sides dropped into their villages ....

Again I'll tell you that I'm undecided if I support what is going on or not. I'm not simply saying no. I need more information on the situation before I take a position on the issue. Keep this in mind when (or if) you respond.

let me try one more time to lay it out: if you go into the streets demanding your rights, good for you. But you need to be going out in greater numbers to reach a point of critical mass to get change. If a country is divided 50/50 or even 60/40 on the current system (which is the case in Libya), it will be a long and bloody road to change. But change must come from within (as what happened in Egypt and Tunisia), not enforced by somebody else.

On the other hand when I talked about intervening in the case of genocide, here is a situation where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. No matter how much you try to conform to the system imposed on you, the government is going to kill you anyway. It does not matter if you are a conformist on not, they will simply kill you for the circumstances of your birth (which is usually bot not always race). You will not be jailed and tortured for what you say and do but killed for what you are. (this is what I meant about gassing children as opposed to shooting rebels) Only under these circumstances should any outside force intervene to save your life.

Nebiros wrote:Blah blah

Figure out what double standards are first before your next comment.

Nebiros wrote:Again I'll tell you that I'm undecided if I support what is going on or not.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
-Revelation 3:16

How does it feel to disappoint your lord?

Baraka Bryan wrote:well i guess it's easy to suggest there should be no intervention when you think of the citizens of the country as less than human.... of course in the same breath you argue about them being a sovereign nation etc etc and how this is an act of war. How you manage to balance your racism with your libertarianism is beyond me

first off, back your happy ass up & re-read the thousand or so posts I've put up here concerning war & race & the Federal Government ...

I am not a "libertarian" at all, because like all political labels, the term is fucking meaningless in reality;
you are either a Lord, a Slave, or a Soldier in any society under any government Men have ever imposed on other Men;

the only political philosophy I subscribe to is Keeping Your Fucking Head Down & Playing the System to Your Advantage;
all the Glorious White Nations of Europe & North America have given their citizens meaningless, irrelevant "rights" & "freedoms"
while having them believe (and Worship) the "Rule of Law" ... the illegal and immoral military operations underway against
Libya, a "sovereign nation" by their own fucking rules, is only the latest example of the Obvious Lie these nations and their
societies are built on ...

and you can take your nasty asides about my "racism" and the "less than human" comment and bury it alongside all the non-combatant
"collateral damage" dead people killed this week by the "peace & freedom" bombs dropped on them by the loving, caring Soldiers of
France, Germany, England, Canada, & the Federal Americans ... if you can find any room in that shallow grave, it's kinda crowded right
now with a bunch of other dead & rotting little brown (&black)(&yellow) corpses ....

He's kind of a "dark humour" kinda guy I think is all.

Baraka Bryan wrote:

sandrider wrote:'shitheel a-rab'

'don't give a fuck about "bringing democracy" to any little fucking brown people'

'insane Wahhabi Islam'

hmmm differences on the current operation in Libya aside, I stand by my comment about your racism

Not that 'Rider needs any defending, but I think that comments like that are how the groups he's talking about view the other groups in their own minds. Take the second one: it's always seemed to me that the apparent racism in a statement like that is how "France, Germany, them English Twits & the US Federals" are thinking of those people, which gives greater impact to 'Rider's dismissal of their supposed intentions.

Or maybe he is just an angry, racist ass. Who knows?