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    feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

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    feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 16 Oct 2010 03:25

    VVAWnet wrote:In the National Association of State Boards of Education press release
    below, we have a very concrete example of why it's critical that progressive
    social change organizations make K-12 education and youth outreach a major
    focus of their efforts--even if it means redirecting some resources away
    from immediate crises.

    As authoritarian governments and institutions have historically
    understood, the key to moving a country's political and social environment in their
    direction is to control the educational system and curricula that shape the
    perspectives of children and young adults. The Pentagon and right-wing
    political groups in the U.S. have learned this principle and, thus, for decades
    have been pursuing a very deliberate, focused effort to embed themselves
    in the educational system--from policy making levels down to individual
    classrooms.

    In the case of the NASBE, we see one of the many ways that the military is
    blatantly using educational decision makers to advance the process of
    militarization in schools, which has the effect of pushing society in a more
    conservative direction. If this process continues to march forward with
    little resistance, it will become harder and harder to work successfully for
    progressive social change, and we may then see a long period of political
    regression that will make reactionary periods of the past look good.

    Borrowing from the title of this NASBE press release, the key to improving
    the outcomes of our movements for peace and social justice is to form
    partnerships with education. If we ignore this lesson, we'll be causing our own
    failure.

    Rick Jahnkow, Program Coordinator
    Project on Youth and Non-Military Opportunities
    _www.projectyano.org_ (http://www.projectyano.org)
    _www.nnomy.org_ (http://www.nnomy.org)


    _http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/14/2312024/nasbe-study-finds-education-an
    d.html_
    (http://www.kansascity.com/2010/10/14/23 ... n-and.html)

    Posted on Thu, Oct. 14, 2010 05:09 AM

    NASBE Study Finds Education and Military Partnerships May Hold Key to
    Improving Student Outcomes

    National Association of State Boards of Education

    /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Community, higher education, and business
    partnerships are often touted as critical links to helping students graduate
    from high school and making sure that they are college- and career-ready when
    they do. Now a panel of state board of education members from across the
    country has found common ground for partnerships with the country's single
    largest employer: the military.

    A new report from a National Association of State Boards of Education
    (NASBE) study group, Common Ground: Education and the Military Meeting the Needs
    of Students, examines the desired outcomes shared among educators, the
    military, business and higher education and how to align these goals with
    shared best practices.

    "We as a nation need to increase our high school graduation rates and to
    make this happen, we need the best ideas from education, the military and
    industry," said NASBE Executive Director Brenda Welburn. "When educators
    join as equals with the military, it means each partner can aid the other in
    the interests of students. We must pursue every available opportunity in our
    drive to prepare students for success in all postsecondary pathways."

    The group determined that educators can adapt many of the best practices
    the military applies to instruct secondary students enrolled in a
    cross-section of programs, including JROTC and the National Guard Youth ChalleNGe.
    The application of these practices that give students discipline, pride, and
    a sense of belonging can be harnessed for use in many school settings. In
    addition to partnerships, military education programs exhibit a host of
    best practices that can be used to inform civilian program, including:

    * A holistic approach to a student's education, including personalized
    learning plans, planning assistance, and consideration of non-academic goals
    and abilities;

    * Integrated, relevant curricula and lessons aligned to desired outcomes;
    and

    * Providing a safe, structured environment.

    While much of the work of maintaining programs occurs at the local level,
    state boards of education can help facilitate partnerships and the use of
    these best practices through a range of policy decisions. The study group
    arrived at six recommendations for state boards including:

    * Examination of their policies to ensure that none hinder student
    participation in programs that help students become productive and responsible
    citizens.

    * Consideration of instituting cognitive and non-cognitive assessments,
    such as the Armed Service Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB), as diagnostic
    tools to assist students as they plan for their transition from secondary
    education to postsecondary life.

    * Leveraging their authority over state school counseling mandates,
    guidance counselor certification requirements and school counseling programs so
    counselors can better inform students and parents about education programs
    and strategies, including military-themed/generated programs, and help them
    create a postsecondary plan that examines all options: work, college, or the
    military.

    For key report takeaways or to purchase a copy of the report, go to
    _www.nasbe.org_ (http://www.nasbe.org) .

    The National Association of State Boards of Education represents America's
    state and territorial boards of education. NASBE exists to strengthen
    State Boards as the preeminent educational policymaking bodies for citizens and
    students. For more, visit _www.nasbe.org_ (http://www.nasbe.org) .

    SOURCE National Association of State Boards of Education




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    Fighting for veterans, peace and justice since 1967
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 09 Nov 2010 00:44


    http://honoringthefallenoifoef.blogspot ... -iraq.html}

    *Iraq, from Operation Iraqi Freedom to Operation New Dawn Sept 1, 2010*
    There have been 4,745 coalition deaths:
    4,426 Americans, 2 Australians, 1 Azerbaijani, 179 Britons, 13 Bulgarians,
    1 Czech, 7 Danes, 2 Dutch, 2 Estonians, 1 Fijian, 5 Georgians, 1 Hungarian,
    33 Italians, 1 Kazakh, 1 South Korean, 3 Latvian, 22 Poles, 3 Romanians,
    5 Salvadoran, 4 Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, 2 Thai and 18 Ukrainians

    *At least 31,967 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon.*

    As the draw down continues, both in theater as to operation participation and
    troops leaving the theater and not being replaced, the numbers of killed and
    injured draws down drastically as well. But those who die later, from wounds
    received or from ailments they developed or from suicides, are still not
    counted and will continue for the years and decades to come.

    The Names and More:
    http://honoringthefallenoifoef.blogspot ... -iraq.html
    ______________________________________________
    vvawnet mailing list
    vvawnet@vvaw.org
    http://lists.shout.net/mailman/listinfo/vvawnet
    *************************************************************
    Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Inc.
    (773) 276-4189
    e-mail: vvaw@vvaw.org
    http://www.vvaw.org
    Fighting for veterans, peace and justice since 1967


    Happy (?) Veterans Day .... :handgestures-salute:


    :violence-snipersmiley: :violence-sniperprone:

    :violence-pistoldouble: :violence-rambo:



    :violence-xloc:

    :violence-shootself:
    :violence-bomb:


    :confusion-confused:
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
    ImageImage

    I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
    how to fully interact with people.
    ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
    User avatar
    SandRider
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    Posts: 6163
    Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
    Location: In the back of your mind. Always.

    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 09 Nov 2010 21:16

    From: Maureen Murphy <maureenclare@***.***>
    Sender: ******************
    Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:25:10
    To: <******************>
    CC: camiblue@vvaw.org, Chicago Iraq Veterans Against the War <chicagoivaw@gmail.com>
    Reply-To: defend-dissent65@***.***
    Subject: Report from the First National Meeting of the CSFR

    *Report from the First National Meeting of the CSFR*

    The first national meeting of the *Committee to Stop FBI Repression* (CSFR)
    was a great success. There was standing room only in the hall, with over
    150 anti-war and international solidarity organizers. Here are the
    important points, followed by notes for people who are working to build the
    movement against FBI repression and Grand Jury intimidation.



    *A. We are asking people to prepare to take action upon the coming
    re-activation of three subpoenas in Minneapolis. We are calling for
    emergency protests. Please see section 6.b. of the notes. *

    * *

    *B. Join the nationwide Committee to Stop FBI Repression—we will be meeting
    on phone conferences every two weeks or as needed. We also want to
    encourage you to form a committee in your city or on your campus. *

    * *

    *C. Continue with education and fund raising events. Please host one of
    the 14 subpoenaed activists to speak in your city at events. There is a new
    CSFR office in Minneapolis and a speakers’ bureau. *

    * *

    *D. Please turn some efforts towards fund raising. When indictments are
    handed down, the legal costs will rise quickly. Please make checks to the
    CSFR at:*



    *Committee to Stop FBI Repression
    PO Box 14183
    Minneapolis, MN 55414*



    *For larger tax deductable donations going to the legal defense fund, please
    make them out to the “National Lawyers’ Guild” and write CSFR in the message
    line. *

    * *

    On behalf of the CSFR, Tom Burke, 773-844-3612



    P.S. Great thanks to Maureen Murphy for her excellent notes and editing.







    1. *Introductions*



    a. Supporters were thanked for spectacular response and organizing in
    response to the FBI raids and 14 subpoenas



    b. Three key demands were reviewed: End the repression of anti-war and
    international solidarity activists, return all materials seized in the
    raids, and call off the Grand Jury



    c. Meeting conduct: refrain from side conversations, keep comments brief,
    photograph front of the room only





    2. *FBI raids and grand jury repression*



    a. Jess Sundin, founding member of the Twin Cities Anti-War Committee
    recounted the raid of her family's home, what was taken, and how the
    Anti-War Committee's office was raided as well. Eventually it was learned
    that 70 federal agents around the country were involved in the raids and
    subpoenas against the Midwest activists and the intimidation visits and
    phone calls across the country



    b. Hatem Abudayyeh described the impact of the raids on families. He
    emphasized that while he was the only Palestinian and Arab-American target
    of the raids and subpoenas, he's not the first Arab-American or Palestinian
    visited or raided in the US. There have been systematic attacks on Palestine
    solidarity work in the US since the immigration from Palestine following the
    1967 occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, but the attacks have been
    worse since 11 September 2001. He reminded the meeting of the case of the LA
    8 -- seven Palestinians and a Kenyan immigrant faced deportation proceedings
    because they distributed written materials in support of Palestine
    liberation. It took twenty years to drop the case. The only crime was that
    they were Palestinians or supporters and they said that US policy is the
    main issue in regards to the Israeli repression of Palestinians. Hatem also
    mentioned how organizations such as Global Relief and the Holy Land
    Foundation have been shut down since 11 September. The Holy Land 5 were
    indicted and convicted for material support because of their humanitarian
    work. Muhammad Salah was acquitted of all RICO (conspiracy) charges and
    convicted only on an obstruction of justice charge. Salah's co-defendant Dr.
    Abdelhaleem al-Ashqar was sentenced to 11 years in prison because he refused
    to testify before a Grand Jury. Hatem said that the government is trying to
    criminalize our movement's work -- the work of everybody in the meeting room
    -- to support legitimate struggles for freedom across the world.



    c. Attorney Bruce Nestor of the National Lawyers Guild explained that the
    NLG sees the material support laws that are the basis of the investigation
    against the 14 anti-war activists as an attempt to repress US activists'
    involvement and solidarity with liberation struggles. Bruce described the
    national coordination and high number of the raids as a development of the
    material support laws enacted since 1996, which were a bipartisan package
    signed by a Democrat President. These laws were broadened by the Patriot act
    under Bush, another bipartisan pact. The material support laws prohibit
    providing any resources to groups unilaterally declared a terrorist
    organization by the Secretary of State, a designation virtually impossible
    to challenge. Bruce explained that the Supreme Court decision this summer on
    Holder vs. Humanitarian was a test case in which the court said that
    providing any service to a group designated as a terrorist organization,
    including training on nonviolent methods of conflict resolution, frees up
    resources that could be spent by the organization on violent activity. The
    court carved out the disclaimer that international solidarity work cannot be
    "coordinated" with the views of the group designated a terrorist
    organization.



    Regarding the Grand Jury proceedings, Bruce explained that the probable
    cause of investigation is international travel. Bruce explained that the
    U.S. government justifies the investigation by taking a first amendment
    activity such as travel and/or meeting with different groups, and then use
    it to prove intent in the criminal prosecution. He explained that the
    government has issued a strict ruling to the lower courts not to question
    the government's determination of what constitutes "probable cause" -- the
    language of the ruling is that "respect for government's opinion is
    appropriate." Bruce also explained that there is no effective legal
    restraint on the government to go after international solidarity work and
    the ONLY effective restraint is political restraint. He said that the raids
    and subpoenas are a test case for the government and warned that US Attorney
    Patrick Fitzgerald, who is overseeing this investigation, asked for a longer
    sentence for Dr. Ashqar than the 11.5 year sentence he received.



    *Word is that the subpoenas for three of the activists in Minnesota are
    being reactivated. When we know the dates for the Grand Jury appearances,
    the CSFR will be calling for protests demanding an end to the Grand Jury
    witch hunt! *

    * *



    d. *Comments and questions*

    i. One person asked about contact with elected officials and what concrete
    actions supporters can take?



    Jess responded that in Minnesota, state legislators took up a "dear
    colleague" letter to President Obama, which was signed on to by one third of
    the legislators and forwarded on to Obama. Minnesota activists have also met
    with staff of both senators who have been asked to initiate a dear colleague
    letter to Obama and call for an investigation of the FBI for overreaching
    and intimidating domestic political movements, and for a re-examining of the
    material support laws. Jess reported that Representatives Keith Ellison
    (MN) and Luis Gutierrez (IL) have given lukewarm commitment to circulate a
    dear colleague letter in the House of Representatives that calls for the
    Grand Jury to be shut down.



    ii. Lamees Deek mentioned that there have been recent arrests in Staten
    Island, New York and Kentucky that are part of the wave of repression
    against Arabs and Muslims in the US. She stressed that there has never been
    a committee convened to protect Palestinians in the US and that there is an
    urgent need for this.



    iii. Susan from the NLG in New York City asked why these 14 individuals were
    targeted in these cities at this time?



    Mick Kelly responded that while we can't read the government's minds, all of
    the targeted activists have been active in supporting the struggles for
    liberation and freedom, including Palestinian and Colombia and all of those
    resisting US imperialism around the world.



    Bruce Nestor responded that the FBI attacks against Somali immigrants in
    Minnesota means that state has the second largest FBI office and the agency
    needs to keep its staff busy; the second factor is that the activists in
    Minnesota organized the huge demonstration against the Republican National
    Convention





    3. *Fundraising*



    Sara Flounders emphasized the immediacy of the situation. She said the
    determined response by the targeted activists, in opposing the raids and
    subpoenas was inspiring, and we need to stand up and that this is our
    movement's only protection and defense. She explained that the pushback
    will need to raise funds and she encouraged the meeting audience to pledge
    funds. Individuals and groups from across the country pledged $5,000 during
    the meeting.



    4. *Activities and organizing*



    a. Tom Burke explained the highlights of the political pushback so far: more
    than 60 cities across the US protested in the first week after the raids;
    another major element is the Committee To Stop FBI Repression online
    petition hosted by the International Action Center; 120 solidarity
    statements are posted on *stopfbi.net*; know-your-rights and other education
    events have been organized by the NLG, CCR, and ACLU; there is now a
    speakers bureau and the targeted activists are travelling to and speaking at
    cities around the US; Cherrene is heading up work in the labor sector, which
    is growing in significance; faith organizations issued a sign-on statement
    against the raids with many signers. There is a Committee To Stop FBI
    Repression office in Minneapolis with staff, and a CSFR bank account.



    Jess Sundin added that there were two national call-in days to Obama and
    Attorney General Eric Holder's office because while it's not clear what
    agency or individuals are behind the raids and investigation, Obama and
    Holder have the power to stop it



    b. *Comments from Anti-war Leaders*

    i. One person from Canada emphasized reaching out internationally to put
    further pressure on the US government

    ii. Charla from SDS in California says SDS is coordinating a sign on letter
    for professors, starting with reaching out to big-name professors, and
    expanding the effort for fundraising purposes too.





    5. *Solidarity with similar injustices*



    Noor Elashi explained that on 4 December 2001, more than 80 FBI agents
    raided the Holy Land Foundation, which was the largest Muslim organization
    in the US. Bush called it "the face of Hamas in the US." Two and a half
    years later, Elashi's father and four others from the Foundation were
    arrested. US government prosecutors said that the foundation's humanitarian
    aid donations to the Zakat or charitable committees in occupied Palestine
    constituted material support. After a three-month trial, which included
    government tactics to intimidate jurors, the government failed to get guilty
    verdicts and the jury was deadlocked. However the judged convened another
    jury that gave guilty verdicts and decades-long sentences were issued. The
    case is being appealed but Attorney General Holder last week gave the second
    highest national honor to the prosecution team. Elashi emphasized that with
    these material support laws, it is possible to prosecute anybody and
    everybody, and everybody is at risk, including former US President Jimmy
    Carter. Elashi also read an excerpt from her forthcoming memoir, which
    recounts the FBI's arrest of her father.





    6. *National organization and next steps*



    a. Mick Kelly put forth a proposal for national organization (see appendix
    below) to set up a national coordination committee that will be both
    democratic and practical. This proposal was then passed. *The national
    coordination committee will meet via telephone conference every two weeks or
    as needed.* A person designated by those facing the Grand Jury will take
    responsibility for chairing the phone meetings, developing the agenda and
    sending out the notices for the meeting and other relevant tasks. The
    Coordinating Committee can establish smaller working groups that will be
    accountable for the Coordinating Committee. Any organization willing to do
    work on this effort can designate a representative to participate in the
    work of the Coordinating Committee. So can local groups and coalitions that
    are doing work around this effort. Groups that are active in this project
    can have more than one representative on the call. The Coordinating
    Committee can make recommendations and take action in the event that a/some
    participants on the call are acting in an unreasonable way. A national
    office of the Committee to Stop FBI Repression is being set up in the Twin
    Cities, and it will take some of the day-to-day work of organizing
    resistance to the Grand Jury and other efforts decided upon by the
    Coordinating Committee.



    b. Steff Yorek reminded the large audience that we are being told that three
    activists in Minnesota will be called to appear in front of the Grand Jury.


    ***The activists at the meeting committed to holding emergency
    demonstrations the day after activists are called to appear before the Grand
    Jury. *

    ***The CSFR will organize another call-in day to Obama and Holder's offices.
    *

    ***The third action is that cities and campuses should organize
    demonstrations for the dates of the Grand Jury appearances. *

    ***Lastly, activists should create and pass resolutions against the raids
    and grand jury proceedings in their various organizations.*

    * *

    c. Sara Flounders urged activists to continue to *publicize the online
    petition* at http://www.iacenter.org/stopfbi/ It has generated more than
    200,000 letters to politicians and public figures.



    d. It was also explained that there is now a DVD with a program on Minnesota
    public access TV that features interviews with the targeted activists. *The
    Minnesota DVD can be shown to classrooms or other gatherings and aired on
    other public access stations.* Activists are also being urged to educate
    anyone and everyone about the raids and grand jury proceedings, and to make
    relevant relationships with different constituencies, putting it in the
    historical context of the Palmera raids, McCarthyism, and COINTELPRO. It
    was pointed out how these material support laws would have essentially
    criminalized the anti-apartheid movement and the Irish republican movement.


    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
    ImageImage

    I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
    how to fully interact with people.
    ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
    User avatar
    SandRider
    Watermaster
     
    Posts: 6163
    Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
    Location: In the back of your mind. Always.

    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 29 Apr 2011 13:31





    Francis A. Boyle
    Law Building
    504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
    Champaign, Illinois 61820
    217-333-7954 (voice)
    217-244-1478 (fax)
    (personal comments only)


    From: Boyle, Francis
    Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 10:14 AM
    To: 'Killeacle'
    Subject: Irish Guards and Norman Bastards

    Prince William was married today in red - wearing the famous tunic of an
    Irish Guards officer rather than his RAF uniform.

    -------------------

    This deliberate insult to all Irish calls to mind what one of America's
    most prominent Founding Fathers Thomas Paine said in his booklet Common
    Sense (1776), written in reaction to what Paine called the "massacres"
    of American citizen soldier Minutemen at Lexington and Concord by
    professional Hessian Mercenaries killing Americans at the behest of the
    British Monarchy. To paraphrase Paine: Who founded the British Monarchy?
    It was that Norman Bastard and his Gang of Armed Bandits! William,
    dubbed the "Conqueror," was the Bastard Son of the Norman King.

    Paine's exact words were: : "A French bastard landing with an armed
    banditti, and establishing himself king of England against the consent
    of the natives, is in plain terms a very paltry rascally original."

    Plus ca change, plus ca reste la meme chose.

    Fab

    FRANCIS BOYLE, fboyle@law.uiuc.edu <mailto:fboyle@law.uiuc.edu>
    Professor of international law at the University of Illinois College
    of Law in Champaign, Boyle is author of "United Ireland, Human Rights
    and International Law." http://www.claritypress.com/BoyleIX.html
    <http://www.claritypress.com/BoyleIX.html>

    He said today: "Some controversy has surrounded the use of the word
    'genocide' with regard to the Great Irish Famine. But this controversy
    has its source in an apparent misunderstanding of the meaning of
    genocide. No, the British government did not inflict on the Irish the
    abject horrors of the Nazi Holocaust. But the definition of 'genocide'
    reaches beyond such ghastly behavior to encompass other reprehensible
    acts designed to destroy a people." Boyle wrote "The Irish Famine was
    Genocide." http://hnn.us/roundup/comments/124588.html
    <http://hnn.us/roundup/comments/124588.html>


    Francis A. Boyle
    Law Building
    504 E. Pennsylvania Ave.
    Champaign, Illinois 61820
    217-333-7954 (voice)
    217-244-1478 (fax)
    (personal comments only)

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    *************************************************************
    Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Inc.
    (773) 276-4189
    e-mail: vvaw@vvaw.org
    http://www.vvaw.org

    Fighting for veterans, peace and justice since 1967
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
    ImageImage

    I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
    how to fully interact with people.
    ~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008
    User avatar
    SandRider
    Watermaster
     
    Posts: 6163
    Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
    Location: In the back of your mind. Always.

    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 14 May 2011 07:12

    http://austin.indymedia.org/article/201 ... nforcement

    Why You Should NOT Talk to Law Enforcement
    By Austin People's Legal Collective, submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 04/29/2011
    Why You Should NOT Talk to Law Enforcement*
    Austin People’s Legal Collective

    Image
    Texas Rangers' press conference in Austin February, 2011
    announcing their investigation of alleged activists on governor's mansion fire of 2008

    In February, investigators with the Texas Rangers approached several Austin and Houston activists asking questions about the 2008 Texas Governor's Mansion fire. Folks were visited at their homes, work places, and at local organizations. Simultaneously, the authorities undertook a media campaign to vilify local activists and create connections where they did not exist.

    During this latest round of law enforcement harassment, several folks in our communities decided it would be expedient to consent to informal little chats with law enforcement. There was a sense (not necessarily unfounded) that the Rangers were buffoons grasping at straws to solve a crime they didn’t actually have any real evidence about and were desperately seeking our help. No doubt it is nice to have an experience with law enforcement in which we do not feel as vulnerable, feel like we have the upper hand, or even insult and mock them to their faces. And there might be a strategic element in seeing what cards they are holding, learning what they know and what they are looking for and how they are looking for it. And, when you genuinely don't know anything about what they are asking, it feels risk free.

    But talking with law enforcement is dangerous and should be avoided for four reasons:** 1) Talking to cops is bad practice, 2) Talking to cops is bad solidarity, 3) We don't actually know what they are looking for or what might be useful to them, and 4) ANYTHING you say CAN and WILL be used against you and others.

    First and foremost, talking to law enforcement is just bad practice. Remaining silent in the face of police questioning is not instinctual, and it is not something that we have been taught to do from an early age. Quite the opposite, most of us are socialized to be both friendly and obedient to law enforcement. Not talking to the cops takes practice, much the same way that consensus/collective process, anti-oppression organizing, non-monogamous relationships, and so many other pieces of our lives that run counter to what we were taught

    To run with the collective process example for a minute, bad/lax process is often fine when organizing in small, intimate groups of people who have with a lot of experience working with each other, only to see that lax process break down when the group grows larger and more diverse. The situation changes, but our awareness of the change lags behind the change itself; and our accommodation of the change lags even behind our awareness. The same dynamic exists with law enforcement. So perhaps a particular investigation by a particular agency is relatively low risk because of their comparative lack of evidence or competence. But when the investigation shifts, we won't know about it until it's too late. And on whose expertise do we decide when it is or isn't safe to chat with law enforcement anyway?

    When collective process breaks down, things can certainly get messy. When practices around not talking to the police break down, things can get dangerous. Just as it is always good to practice a culture of respect, consensus, and anti-oppression organizing, we owe it to ourselves, the people we organize with, and the people close to us who may look to us for guidance or inspiration at times to ALWAYS practice not talking to law enforcement. Practice makes perfect.

    Second, talking to law enforcement is bad solidarity. Because of the above mentioned socialization around obedience to law enforcement, the cops are accustomed to cooperation, and their suspicions are inevitably raised when someone refuses to talk. If investigators are canvassing a community on a political fishing expedition (much like the Rangers were doing in February), and half the folks they approach agree to talk and the other half don't, who does that cast scrutiny on? The people who talk likely don't get crossed off the list completely, but that cop certainly gets back to his office and wonders, "Why didn't he talk to me when both of his friends did?"

    When we refuse to talk to law enforcement, it not only protects us as individuals, but also protects the next person, both from what we might say and from any added suspicion or scrutiny the cops might draw from getting different responses. When the cops leave your house to knock on the next door, that next person deserves to feel empowered and confident that her reaction—refusing to talk—is the same reaction that cop has received from the previous three houses and will receive from the next three, and that no scrutiny or suspicion will be cast on her because of her refusal to talk that wasn't cast on the community evenly. When we stand together and respond together, all of us will feel, and will actually be safer. Solidarity, always and forever y'all.

    Third, we don't actually know, nor can we know, what it is the cops are looking for, or how they are looking for it. The nature of investigations into political movements/communities is that law enforcement are never investigating just a single crime. They are also, at the very least, gathering intelligence. This information isn't just gathered through our verbal responses. Our non-verbal communication, facial expressions, attitude, etc. speak volumes, often in ways we don't realize and can't control.

    The cops might be noting such things as: Who is talkative, cocky, impulsive? Who is belligerent and defensive? Who is scared, submissive or vulnerable? Who flinches or pauses when we say X? Who sweats and acts nervous when we talk about Y? Who will agree to chat with us and who won't? Who hires a lawyer and who doesn't? Why did his eyes focus on this picture longer than the others? Why didn't he correct us when we said Z? We weren't aware he was associated with x, y, and z, but he didn't ask who they were or seem confused when we mentioned their names.

    A quick lesson on the history of political repression in the United States will quickly illustrate why it is dangerous to allow law enforcement to map our communities like this. Also, being identified as someone who is willing to chat with law enforcement greatly increases the likelihood that they will keep returning to talk to you. Nobody likes to revisit a dry well. We always iterate that everything you SAY can and will be used against you and others, but everything you DON'T SAY in the course of consensual questioning can and will be similarly used. It's hard to out-play a stacked deck.

    Fourth and finally, ANYTHING you say CAN and WILL be used against you and others, and nothing you say can be used to help you. Tiny statements can be taken out of context, misquoted, blown out of proportion, and used in ways that are ridiculously absurd but no less dangerous. White lies that are the result of your poor memory or a slip of the tongue more than any intent to deceive can be used to incriminate you. Even if you are so overconfident in believing that nothing you say can harm you, what you say can still harm those around you. But really, how many people go to prison because they just couldn't shut the fuck up? Tons. For more information, we recommend this video of a lawyer and then a cop discussing why not to talk to the police: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc. Don’t let your mouth throw your ass in prison.

    Further Resources:
    Know Your Rights booklet by the ACLU
    Anarchist Survival Guide for Understanding Gestapo Swine Interrogation Mind Games: Staying Free by Shutting the Fuck Up! by Harold H. Thompson
    War At Home: Covert Action Against U.S. Activists and What We Can Do About It by Brian Glickman


    *Disclaimer: We are not lawyers and this is not legal advice. If you have a specific legal question, please contact an attorney.
    **Note: the scope of this article is restricted to practical/pragmatic reasons why you shouldn’t talk to law enforcement when they are investigating political communities or political crimes. Many people have strong reasons of ideology and principal for not talking to law enforcement because of the role law enforcement plays in violently enforcing the status quo. We do not address those reasons here. Nor do we specifically address the question of whether complete silence/refusal to talk is a good idea in low-key, non-political contexts like a traffic stop. A good case can be made that many of the same reasons not to talk to law enforcement in political situations applies in non-political situations, but it is a question we will leave for another time.
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 14 Sep 2011 16:34

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gmgwx77osw&feature=related[/youtube]
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    I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 04 Nov 2011 03:17

    I just wanted to take this opportunity to mention how fucking pleased I am
    that the Oakland Police Department is using tear gas & rubber bullets against
    civilians in their streets ...
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 04 Nov 2011 03:28

    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 04 Nov 2011 04:48

    I think Imma go to the Deadhorse on Friday night,
    get SHIT-faced drunk & get arrested on the courthouse
    steps @ the Veteran's Day Parade Saturday morning ....
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 04 Nov 2011 08:18

    SandRider wrote:I think Imma go to the Deadhorse on Friday night,
    get SHIT-faced drunk & get arrested on the courthouse
    steps @ the Veteran's Day Parade Saturday morning ....


    :happy-cheerleadersmileygirl:
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Omphalos » 04 Nov 2011 12:36

    SandRider wrote:I think Imma go to the Deadhorse on Friday night,
    get SHIT-faced drunk & get arrested on the courthouse
    steps @ the Veteran's Day Parade Saturday morning ....


    I thought you and the sherrif had a truce? Going to start beheading the Lil Baby Jesus display again too?
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 04 Nov 2011 14:32

    Omphalos wrote:
    SandRider wrote:I think Imma go to the Deadhorse on Friday night,
    get SHIT-faced drunk & get arrested on the courthouse
    steps @ the Veteran's Day Parade Saturday morning ....


    I thought you and the sherrif had a truce? Going to start beheading the Lil Baby Jesus display again too?


    Take pictures!
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SandRider » 04 Nov 2011 14:53

    the whole desecrating-the-nativity-scene-on-the-courthouse-lawn thing got kinda old ....
    me & sheriff are still beaucoup buddies, altho there is a new Chief of Police who is too
    young to know or understand me .... and I don't think it will be necessary for me to
    take any pictures, I'm relying on the local newspaper kids for all that ....
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 04 Nov 2011 15:17

    SandRider wrote: .... and I don't think it will be necessary for me to
    take any pictures, I'm relying on the local newspaper kids for all that ....


    Good point.
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Robspierre » 04 Nov 2011 22:40

    SR, sounds like a perfect opportunity to introduce the new chief o' po-lice to you :cylon101:

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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 05 Nov 2011 01:46

    When I eventually do my grand tour of the USA (turns out you folks actually have a wide variety cool culture, landscapes and food, it's not all like it looks on FAUX News!) visiting Sandrider and drinking is VERY high on my list of shit to do.

    Plus I want to get lost in the swamp and fist fight either a gator or a big snake. I may want to get life insurance before that one!
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 07 Nov 2011 09:01

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:Plus I want to get lost in the swamp and fist fight either a gator or a big snake. I may want to get life insurance before that one!


    We've got a lot of invasive snakes in the swamps in Florida... someone killed one with a 62lb deer in it's gut a few days ago. Have at 'em.
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 07 Nov 2011 14:32

    Freakzilla wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:Plus I want to get lost in the swamp and fist fight either a gator or a big snake. I may want to get life insurance before that one!


    We've got a lot of invasive snakes in the swamps in Florida... someone killed one with a 62lb deer in it's gut a few days ago. Have at 'em.


    I saw that pic. I mostly just want to go see the swamp, really beautiful, listen to the whacky speach of the Cajuns, and eat fried-everything, especially gator which I've never had. Well, not fried everything, gotta have some blackened fish too.
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 07 Nov 2011 14:34

    Contrary to popular belief, not everything is cooked like that.

    We BBQ, too.

    :P
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 07 Nov 2011 15:24

    Freakzilla wrote:Contrary to popular belief, not everything is cooked like that.

    We BBQ, too.

    :P


    I didn't know you were in swamp country, had to look up Atlanta just now on a map, not where I thought it was! Yes there's BBQ too, but that's best reserved for beef/pork I think, low and slow lots o' smoke! I'm wanting the cajun shit, lots of things that lived in the water going into my mouth!
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 07 Nov 2011 15:50

    I'm originally from New Orleans, my parents moved to Atlanta when I was 8.

    But BBQ was originally the "poor man's way of cooking" because it makes almost any meat tender.

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    But honestly, there's nowhere better to eat than New Orleans.
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 07 Nov 2011 15:52

    N' Orlins (how'd I do?) is VERY high on my list of places to visit. There's still a lot of badass places I haven't been to in my own country though, so I want to see those first.
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby SadisticCynic » 07 Nov 2011 15:55

    I love how the armadillo has a cigarette in its mouth. :)
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Freakzilla » 07 Nov 2011 16:05

    That's what they call possum on the half-shell. :wink:
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    Re: feelin' protesty, man .... real protesty ...

    Postby Mandy » 07 Nov 2011 19:10

    We used to eat armadillo when I was a kid. You hardly ever see one around here anymore (not because we ate them all, lol).
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