Chivalry v/s feminism

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Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Eyes High » 26 Mar 2010 20:07

When I read this in another thread it brought a question to mind that my youngest son asked the other week.

nampigai wrote:I was at a bar once where a girl slapped a guy for taking up the pool table (he WAS playing pool) – the guy asked her “do you believe in equal rights between men and women?” she said “yes, offcourse!” – then the guy slapped her. There was a general applause, from other women as well.



Seems like he and a girl (who happens to be his cousin by marriage) got into an arguement at youth group last week at church. She, age 14, slapped him, age 12, and he slapped her back after the youth were dismissed.

I got onto him for one; causing a distraction during youth group and two; hitting a girl.

He then with out being sassy, asked why couldn't he hit her back when she hit him first? After all I had told him never to start a fight but that he had the right to defend himself.

I went into the spill about guys shouldn't hit girls because even though it is a double standard, most people view girls as the 'weaker' sex. That she was wrong to hit him but he was wrong to hit her.

Soooo, as how can we teach our young men to be gentlemen in a world where some women (and men) look upon chivalry as 'old fashion?'

And why do I feel like I should be eating crow for telling my son he can defend himself against another male but to jsut walk away from a femal.?

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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 26 Mar 2010 20:15

I think of it as not being wrong to hit a woman because she's a woman, but it's wrong to hit her because she's (presumably) physically weaker and less able to defend herself. If a woman that's twice your size attacks you that might be a different story! This is the same reason we don't beat up children, or people in wheelchairs, etc (though obviously most women are much more capable of doing damage than either of those examples!).

That's the only way to make it not sexist, because it truly is sexist to not fight back against a woman just because she's a woman.

He can (in my opinion) defend himself against a girl by either restraining her, or just walking away because she's probably no real physical threat to him. (Hitting someone back isn't "defense" unless they're a danger to you and you're trying to incapacitate them) He should probably do the same thing if a small male attacks him in my opinion - it's only honourable to attack someone back if they stand a reasonable chance of injuring you, otherwise the honourable thing is to end the violence, not to perpetuate it.

So.... yeah, I'd tell him it's wrong to hit her because he didn't NEED to hit her. It's only right to hurt someone when you NEED to, not when you WANT to. That's how my version of honour works anyways.

I'm not much for chivalry but honour I find easier to work with.
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby SandChigger » 26 Mar 2010 22:14

Slap the bitch back ... with assault charges! :lol:

Keeping in mind that I basically am and always have been/will be a misogynist ;) the double standard shit pisses the hell out of me. The girl evidently thought it was OK for her to slap him just because she was pissed off. It wasn't. Any more than it was for him to slap her back.

And I really don't get him waiting until everyone was dismissed to slap her back. If he didn't want to be seen hitting a girl, then why do it at all? If he didn't care about peer opinion and wanted to teach her a lesson and thought slapping her was the way to do it, he should have done it right away.

By the way, where was the adult in charge during all of this?

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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Eyes High » 26 Mar 2010 23:13

SandChigger wrote: ...
And I really don't get him waiting until everyone was dismissed to slap her back. If he didn't want to be seen hitting a girl, then why do it at all? If he didn't care about peer opinion and wanted to teach her a lesson and thought slapping her was the way to do it, he should have done it right away.


Sorry, that was my fault for being clear about that part. The argument started during class, but the slapping came after class.

And from what was told to me (by both my youngest son and middle son) was that Isaac told her if she hit him, then he would hit her back which means he did give her warning and she still chose to hit him, which pissed me off very much I must admit. And my sons said that others heard him say that.

What really ticks me off is that it started over shoes... he was sitting on a bean bag in class she put her feet on it and he put his hands behind his head and touched her shoes and she told him: "Don't touch my shoes, they cost $ 100.00 and I don't want to have to throw them away." She use to be a good kid, but since she's turned 14 she's trying to be all high and mighty and 'all that.' She's turning into a ------


SandChigger wrote:By the way, where was the adult in charge during all of this?


After class is done the kids are dismissed and they hang around with no adult supervision. Which I don't care for. Sometimes I'm there and can try to keep an eye on my own but other times I'm either at home, or in the adult class, or even at my mother-n-law's and the youth are sometimes let out earlier than at other times so they may have 5 mins to hang out before the adults are release or 15 - 20 mins to hang out.
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby SandChigger » 26 Mar 2010 23:55

Eyes High wrote:Sorry, that was my fault for being clear about that part. The argument started during class, but the slapping came after class.

Nope, you were perfectly clear, I got that. :)

What really ticks me off is that it started over shoes... he was sitting on a bean bag in class she put her feet on it and he put his hands behind his head and touched her shoes and she told him: "Don't touch my shoes, they cost $ 100.00 and I don't want to have to throw them away."

:doh:

OK, OK! It's the better part of half a century ago now, but reading that I suddenly remembered EXACTLY what it's like being 12~14. And with cousins. And at church. Oy vey! :lol:

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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Eyes High » 27 Mar 2010 05:44

SandChigger wrote:....

OK, OK! It's the better part of half a century ago now, but reading that I suddenly remembered EXACTLY what it's like being 12~14. And with cousins. And at church. Oy vey! :lol:



:text-lol: :laughing-rollingred:

I should remember that...you're right...cousins can be a pain in the ---- good day.
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Ampoliros » 27 Mar 2010 12:36

Eyes High wrote:What really ticks me off is that it started over shoes... he was sitting on a bean bag in class she put her feet on it and he put his hands behind his head and touched her shoes and she told him: "Don't touch my shoes, they cost $ 100.00 and I don't want to have to throw them away." She use to be a good kid, but since she's turned 14 she's trying to be all high and mighty and 'all that.' She's turning into a ------


the shoes are worth more than she is...so I guess she has a point...

If you think this is pathetic I'm running a RPG campaign where one player (a middle-aged man) is playing a 16 year old girl. The sad part is that he has the whiny teenage brat part down much too completely and not as an act. He actually complained to me after the game that the (Star Wars) Empire was being "too repressive" against his character (after he told a Stormtrooper to its face "Don't take any shit")

I believe in chivalry, but I also respect women's equality. I also believe they need to pick ONE and stick with it. He was justified in returning the slap, but the assault charge would have been even better to deal with her uppity self.
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby DuneFishUK » 27 Mar 2010 16:34

I gave up on chivalry-over-equality a few years ago when a random girl at university decided to tell me off for holding the door open for her.

These were heavy swinging doors - The sort you hold open whoever is coming though after you. To let those door slams on anyone, regardless of their gender, race or creed, would be unbelievably cockish. I suspect she was a mental, but sod it - equality from here on in. Just try not to be a cock.

Simples. :)

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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Eyes High » 27 Mar 2010 20:08

Yeah, I don't mind if someone holds a door open for me and I know I've held doors open for others (both men and women) Then again, I guess I'm not what one would call a feminist.
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby SandChigger » 27 Mar 2010 20:26

Depending on the timing of arrival, I generally hold the door for others, regardless of gender.

If they get weird about it, I just say, "Aw go on ahead. Besides, I wanna look at yur butt." ;)

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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Ampoliros » 28 Mar 2010 02:23

SandChigger wrote:If they get weird about it, I just say, "Aw go on ahead. Besides, I wanna look at yur butt." ;)


Only on the internet... lol
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby SandChigger » 28 Mar 2010 02:50

You know it. :lol:

But I really do generally let other people go first.

Might be booby traps. ;)

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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby SadisticCynic » 28 Mar 2010 11:44

SandChigger wrote:You know it. :lol:

But I really do generally let other people go first.

Might be booby traps. ;)


I have my excuse if this ever turns up for me. :)
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby trang » 29 Mar 2010 03:01

I believe in chivalry. I practice it daily. I have never recieved an ill word or stare because of it from any women, most find it refreshing. Men hitting Women is just bad form, and shouldnt be done. Women should be honored and respected no matter the situation.

Its not inequality or sexist, its understanding the difference between us, just my opinion.
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Mr. Teg » 29 Mar 2010 10:09

trang wrote:I believe in chivalry. I practice it daily. I have never recieved an ill word or stare because of it from any women, most find it refreshing. Men hitting Women is just bad form, and shouldnt be done. Women should be honored and respected no matter the situation.

Its not inequality or sexist, its understanding the difference between us, just my opinion.


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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby SandChigger » 29 Mar 2010 13:33

BEWARE THE OBA-TTALION!!! :?

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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Orthodox » 29 Mar 2010 20:57

Girl hits boy. Boy hits Girl. Girl sues. Boy goes to jail. Life dismissed.

Girl hits boy. Boy stands still. Boy sues. Laughing ensues. Case dismissed.
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Eyes High » 29 Mar 2010 21:35

Well, I will try to teach him chivalry and the difference between defending one's self and just hitting someone back (whether boy or girl) and the honor of walking away, not resorting to violence. [Which I admit will be hard, because I was raised you never start a fight but you sure dang well better finish one. :cat fight: ]

But just like cousins (and kids in general) they were just fine this past Saturday while they were working the youth yard-sale fund raiser together.

Thanks for your opinions and feed back. Some gave me real cause to stop and think and some gave me a dang good laugh.

Thank you my friends.
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby chanilover » 31 Mar 2010 16:22

Cousins are a pain in the arse. I remember when I was a kid some of the family came over from their shanty town in the Philippines and I had to share my room with a cousin who got on my nerves for no reason at all LOL! I tore pages out of my schoolbooks and made them into balls and threw them at his head. Anyway, there you have it, hope that helps, Eyes! :lol:
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Omphalos » 01 Apr 2010 00:19

chanilover wrote:Cousins are a pain in the arse. I remember when I was a kid some of the family came over from their shanty town in the Philippines and I had to share my room with a cousin who got on my nerves for no reason at all LOL! I tore pages out of my schoolbooks and made them into balls and threw them at his head. Anyway, there you have it, hope that helps, Eyes! :lol:


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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby chanilover » 01 Apr 2010 13:09

Omphalos wrote:
chanilover wrote:Cousins are a pain in the arse. I remember when I was a kid some of the family came over from their shanty town in the Philippines and I had to share my room with a cousin who got on my nerves for no reason at all LOL! I tore pages out of my schoolbooks and made them into balls and threw them at his head. Anyway, there you have it, hope that helps, Eyes! :lol:


Pinsan, mahalin mo naman ako! Gusto ko tumira sa inyo!


Wala iyon, lubos akong nasiyahan. :lol:
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Serkanner » 01 Apr 2010 14:30

I smell two bans approaching rapidly :wink:
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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Omphalos » 01 Apr 2010 21:12

chanilover wrote:
Omphalos wrote:
chanilover wrote:Cousins are a pain in the arse. I remember when I was a kid some of the family came over from their shanty town in the Philippines and I had to share my room with a cousin who got on my nerves for no reason at all LOL! I tore pages out of my schoolbooks and made them into balls and threw them at his head. Anyway, there you have it, hope that helps, Eyes! :lol:


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Wala iyon, lubos akong nasiyahan. :lol:


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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby SandChigger » 01 Apr 2010 22:25

Serkanner wrote:I smell two bans approaching rapidly :wink:

Yeah, wait till Freak sees that stuff. :P

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Re: Chivalry v/s feminism

Postby Omphalos » 01 Apr 2010 22:33

SandChigger wrote:
Serkanner wrote:I smell two bans approaching rapidly :wink:

Yeah, wait till Freak sees that stuff. :P


I think I'll start calling you a Nazi if Freak threatens to ban me. If not a Nazi, at least a hater of Jews. That should help me make my point that I'm being treated unfairly.