Gun Control

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Freakzilla
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Gun Control

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 11:15

Darriel L. Ezell Patrolman, AHP


Shooting in Butte , Montana
Shotgun: - - - preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders:

Butte , Montana November 5, 2007

Two illegal aliens, Raphael Resindez, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a local clay shooting champion and hunter since she was nine.

Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house using a sledge hammer. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resindez was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of 00 buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.

When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast which shredded his left shoulder and staggered out into the street and bled to death before medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resindez was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he had stolen earlier from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from multiple stab wounds to the chest.

Ever wonder why stories like this never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, & MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news.........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home and herself.......against two murderous, illegal aliens .........and she wins, she is still alive.

Now that is Gun Control! ...........Thought for the day:

Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'.
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Rakis
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Rakis » 16 Apr 2009 11:41

So an 11 year-old got access to a 12 gauge gun?

I'm glad of the outcome, but, again, an 11 year-old got access to a 12 gauge gun? :think:
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Re: Gun Control

Postby SwordMaster » 16 Apr 2009 11:48

Man, this is a difficult issue for me. You know most Canadians are not big on guns, we never really have been always taking the more British approch to hand guns at least. Dont fuck with our shotguns of riffles though.

This story does make me happy. I have a 9 year old daughter and I would be so proud of her if she did what this girl did. That being said I would worry about having a loaded shotgun in the house. But as long as I could provide the saftey and training practice then I would be more open to it. Im just extreemly torn on this issue and while I want my home and family safe and protected I am not sure I would wanted loaded weapons inthe house. But I comend this girl and her father who made sure she was well trained in the use of firearms.

Also it should be said that while this girl did not get harmed by the invaders of her home, she did have to go through the extreemly difficult experience of killing two people, and even though they were bad guys, I would bet she will have some trouble getting over this. I hope she is able to get some good support and help from her family in moving past it. I know guys who have had to make a kill shot from SWAT and Canadian Forces and even though they are following orders, and well trained in killing, they have trouble sleeping for a while afterwards.

Thanks FZ, I liked your thought of the day. I agree 100% and I really hope that the police do not treat this is a crime other then what the invaders did. This girl had every right to shot those muther fuckers.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby chanilover » 16 Apr 2009 11:51

Cute story, but this last line made me feel sick.

Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'.
Yuk.

Look out, honky, us brownies and yellows are comin' in to rape your daughters (well, I wouldn't but hide your crockery) and steal your furniture! :Adolf:
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Mandy » 16 Apr 2009 11:53

Rakis wrote:So an 11 year-old got access to a 12 gauge gun?

I'm glad of the outcome, but, again, an 11 year-old got access to a 12 gauge gun? :think:


I had access to guns when I was 11, so I don't find this to be outrageous. When you grow up with guns, and are taught how to use them, you have a different attitude towards them, a much more respectful attitude. They are not toys to be played with.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 11:54

Rakis wrote:So an 11 year-old got access to a 12 gauge gun?

I'm glad of the outcome, but, again, an 11 year-old got access to a 12 gauge gun? :think:


Yeah, a "properly trained" and "clay shooting champion" girl.

:roll:
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 11:58

chanilover wrote:Cute story, but this last line made me feel sick.

Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'.
Yuk.

Look out, honky, us brownies and yellows are comin' in to rape your daughters (well, I wouldn't but hide your crockery) and steal your furniture! :Adolf:


I received this story via email and only edited it to fit our format.

I posted this to show that even an 11-year-old girl, properly trained, defended herself and her home with a legal weapon against two full grown, violent criminals.

What their intent was is irrelivent, however, as the story says they had already stabbed someone to death.

We can debate the virtues of criminal aliens in another topic.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby chanilover » 16 Apr 2009 12:04

Freakzilla wrote:
chanilover wrote:Cute story, but this last line made me feel sick.

Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'.
Yuk.

Look out, honky, us brownies and yellows are comin' in to rape your daughters (well, I wouldn't but hide your crockery) and steal your furniture! :Adolf:


I received this story via email and only edited it to fit our format.

I posted this to show that even an 11-year-old girl, properly trained, defended herself and her home with a legal weapon against two full grown, violent criminals.

What their intent was is irrelivent, however, as the story says they had already stabbed someone to death.

We can debate the virtues of criminal aliens in another topic.


Yeah, I know you didn't type it and it was a linked story, but the attidude of the creep who wrote it still stinks to high heaven. Vile piece of muck, what had their nationality got to do with anything? Before you say nothing, the guy who wrote the article seemed to think it was worth commenting on. Still, at least this girl wiped out two pieces of vermin. Go Chantelle, or whatever her name is.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 12:06

chanilover wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
chanilover wrote:Cute story, but this last line made me feel sick.

Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'.
Yuk.

Look out, honky, us brownies and yellows are comin' in to rape your daughters (well, I wouldn't but hide your crockery) and steal your furniture! :Adolf:


I received this story via email and only edited it to fit our format.

I posted this to show that even an 11-year-old girl, properly trained, defended herself and her home with a legal weapon against two full grown, violent criminals.

What their intent was is irrelivent, however, as the story says they had already stabbed someone to death.

We can debate the virtues of criminal aliens in another topic.


Yeah, I know you didn't type it and it was a linked story, but the attidude of the creep who wrote it still stinks to high heaven. Vile piece of muck, what had their nationality got to do with anything? Before you say nothing, the guy who wrote the article seemed to think it was worth commenting on. Still, at least this girl wiped out two pieces of vermin. Go Chantelle, or whatever her name is.


Agreed, the race of the criminals was not necessary to make the point of the story.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 12:16

SwordMaster wrote:You know most Canadians are not big on guns...


Yet they have the best snipers... :think:

That being said I would worry about having a loaded shotgun in the house.


Did the story say it was loaded?
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Re: Gun Control

Postby GamePlayer » 16 Apr 2009 12:23

Great story, but they could lose the xenophobic, racist remarks at the end. Bullshit like that only turns people against gun advocates.

As for gun control, it is just one more facet of the erosion of our rights. It is no different than our human rights commissions here in Canada that persecute indiscriminately with no respect for the law. How long before the government comes after me for my video games or my film with anti-game and anti-film legislation? We're losing more than people realize. They think it's going to stop at guns and that they don't have to worry because they don't own any. It's not about guns; it never has been. It's about our rights.

Well, we're making our own beds and soon we'll have to sleep in them. :cry:
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Omphalos » 16 Apr 2009 12:38

Freakzilla wrote:Ever wonder why stories like this never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, & MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news.........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home and herself.......against two murderous, illegal aliens .........and she wins, she is still alive.


Maybe because it's total fucking bullshit:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/homeinvasion.asp

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/ ... vasion.htm

Does anyone really think that this at least would not hit the news services if it really happened, regardless of whether the major networks picked it up?

C'mon.

And yes, I get that the issue here is gun rights, and not necessarially this little girl's story. But so do the lying assholes who made this up.

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Re: Gun Control

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 12:51

My bad!

However, snopes was kind enough to relate two similar, true stories in that link.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/ ... 846d3.html
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Rakis » 16 Apr 2009 13:06

Whoa Omph :shock:

So, it's a story made up to promote the use of guns? Using our own fears to justify this... :naughty:

Yeah, a "properly trained" and "clay shooting champion" girl.


Oh, i wasn't questioning if she was qualified or not to hold a gun...it's just that i see enough things on the news about kids killing other kids with guns...but that's a different topic... :wink:
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Re: Gun Control

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Apr 2009 13:08

Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Ever wonder why stories like this never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, & MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news.........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home and herself.......against two murderous, illegal aliens .........and she wins, she is still alive.


Maybe because it's total fucking bullshit:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/homeinvasion.asp

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/ ... vasion.htm

Does anyone really think that this at least would not hit the news services if it really happened, regardless of whether the major networks picked it up?

C'mon.

And yes, I get that the issue here is gun rights, and not necessarially this little girl's story. But so do the lying assholes who made this up.


:lol:

I could go either way on gun control, I don't really care much (I would like to see handguns illigal but rifles can stay IMO) - but I think it's silly to get up in arms (ha - pun!) about it because it's an "erosion of our rights". Maybe it's against my rights that I can't own an assault rifle, rocket launcher, bio weaponry etc. Where to draw the line, where to draw the line? EVERYTHING is an erosion of rights to someone. My right to not get punched in the face stomps on someone else's right to punch who ever they want, but if I start the fight then their right to self defense stomps on my right to not get punched in the face. Children's right to not get immersed in second hand smoke stomps on their parent's right to smoke in the same room. Nothing is wrong with smoking, but if it violates someone else's rights then a judge sits down and decides who's rights win in that specific scenario - that's the way rights work. It's not an erosion of rights unless everyone is loosing rights, in cases like this someone is loosing while someone else is gaining, so it's really just a relocation of rights.

Just my opinion though, don't take it personally anyone! I have a feeling I'm going to hear about this though...
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Omphalos » 16 Apr 2009 13:17

Freakzilla wrote:My bad!

However, snopes was kind enough to relate two similar, true stories in that link.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/ ... 846d3.html


Call me a cynic, but I'd like to know the rest of this story. This sounds like a hit to me, not a home invasion. Who enters a home to take stuff with guns blazing? Those guys moved in to shoot the place up, then get the hell away, not enter the place and kidnap people or take jewelery.

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Re: Gun Control

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Apr 2009 13:22

Rakis wrote:Whoa Omph :shock:

So, it's a story made up to promote the use of guns? Using our own fears to justify this... :naughty:

Yeah, a "properly trained" and "clay shooting champion" girl.


Oh, i wasn't questioning if she was qualified or not to hold a gun...it's just that i see enough things on the news about kids killing other kids with guns...but that's a different topic... :wink:

I'd love to see some stats of kids defending themselves with guns sucessfully compared to kids killing/maiming themselves. I'd bet that'd be one lopsided ratio! :lol:

Whatever though, both sides of this arguement can produce stats to back up their claims, and both sides have pretty good arguments.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby SwordMaster » 16 Apr 2009 13:42

Freakzilla wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:You know most Canadians are not big on guns...


Yet they have the best snipers... :think:

That being said I would worry about having a loaded shotgun in the house.


Did the story say it was loaded?


LOL, well I should have been clear about handguns. We love our big guns and hunting gear. As for the snipers... Canada may hold the record for longest recorded kill, but I think the SEALs and RANGERS and probally 50x as many SWAT teams, no question USA has the most snipers and overall best trained... We just have a handful that can cap talibanis in the head from 2.5 KMs.

If the gun was loaded or not, the ammo was near by. Since the story is fictional anyways... well I guess its mute.

FZ, do you have guns with ammo in your home and do your kids know where they are hidden? And will you train your kids to use guns safley?
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Re: Gun Control

Postby GamePlayer » 16 Apr 2009 14:10

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I could go either way on gun control, I don't really care much (I would like to see handguns illigal but rifles can stay IMO) - but I think it's silly to get up in arms (ha - pun!) about it because it's an "erosion of our rights". Maybe it's against my rights that I can't own an assault rifle, rocket launcher, bio weaponry etc. Where to draw the line, where to draw the line? EVERYTHING is an erosion of rights to someone. My right to not get punched in the face stomps on someone else's right to punch who ever they want, but if I start the fight then their right to self defense stomps on my right to not get punched in the face. Children's right to not get immersed in second hand smoke stomps on their parent's right to smoke in the same room. Nothing is wrong with smoking, but if it violates someone else's rights then a judge sits down and decides who's rights win in that specific scenario - that's the way rights work. It's not an erosion of rights unless everyone is loosing rights, in cases like this someone is loosing while someone else is gaining, so it's really just a relocation of rights.

Just my opinion though, don't take it personally anyone! I have a feeling I'm going to hear about this though...


How does that translate in any way? You're immediately indicting guns as criminal, as illegal...outright....by default. By your fist/assault jump in "logic", anyone with a fist should be deemed illegal.

And the lines have been drawn. We had rights, which are now being taken away and for all the wrong reasons. Guns get the blame for every school shooting and for every LA bank robbery. The guns get all the press and get banned, while the underlining problem is ignored. The human being going psycho in the first place is blamed on guns, video games, Satan, rap music, (insert scapegoat). No one ever asks what the real problem is. Why millions of hobbyists enjoy guns safely, why millions more enjoy video games without a problem, why violent films entertain billions. All it takes is one incident and instead of blaming the perpetrator, we declare some kind of epidemic requiring the banning of guns, video games, music, etc.

Gun control becomes our short-sighted band-aid, a way to make ourselves and our politicians feel like they are doing something when in actuality we're doing nothing. Banning guns is obviously turning out to be ridiculously easy, with people only too willing to surrender their rights. But counseling some poor soul before they explode into a fireball of bullet-loaded fury, oh, that's apparently too much for our society to handle :roll:

But again, that's the whole problem with the gun control issue to begin with; we're all programmed by the media to instantly HATE guns. Guns are linked to every kind of societal taboo or social ill that can be imagined. Even saying the word "gun" in casual conversion with most people is like dropping the c-bomb. And if you speak against gun control, you're immediately dismissed as a second-class citizen. You're a crazy; a "from-my-cold-dead-hands" head case to be caricatured in a Michael Moore "documentary." In this climate, I'm not surprised no one gives a damn.

It is an erosion of rights. It's all done in the name of the "common good", the interests of the "public health," the safety and security of "our children." It's emotional blackmail to justify the denial of our rights. Our own good intentions paving the road to hell. Who is the government to tell me I can't smoke, can't own a gun, I can't play a video game? And why aren't people outraged by the very thought of this big brother transgression against us? Why are they willing to lay down their very rights just for a little piece of mind? I was taught Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither, but sometimes I feel awfully lonely.

Well BB, you better get into office soon :)
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Re: Gun Control

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Apr 2009 14:22

GamePlayer wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:I could go either way on gun control, I don't really care much (I would like to see handguns illigal but rifles can stay IMO) - but I think it's silly to get up in arms (ha - pun!) about it because it's an "erosion of our rights". Maybe it's against my rights that I can't own an assault rifle, rocket launcher, bio weaponry etc. Where to draw the line, where to draw the line? EVERYTHING is an erosion of rights to someone. My right to not get punched in the face stomps on someone else's right to punch who ever they want, but if I start the fight then their right to self defense stomps on my right to not get punched in the face. Children's right to not get immersed in second hand smoke stomps on their parent's right to smoke in the same room. Nothing is wrong with smoking, but if it violates someone else's rights then a judge sits down and decides who's rights win in that specific scenario - that's the way rights work. It's not an erosion of rights unless everyone is loosing rights, in cases like this someone is loosing while someone else is gaining, so it's really just a relocation of rights.

Just my opinion though, don't take it personally anyone! I have a feeling I'm going to hear about this though...


How does that translate in any way? You're immediately indicting guns as criminal, as illegal...outright....by default. By your fist/assault jump in "logic", anyone with a fist should be deemed illegal.

And the lines have been drawn. We had rights, which are now being taken away and for all the wrong reasons. Guns get the blame for every school shooting and for every LA bank robbery. The guns get all the press and get banned, while the underlining problem is ignored. The human being going psycho in the first place is blamed on guns, video games, Satan, rap music, (insert scapegoat). No one ever asks what the real problem is. Why millions of hobbyists enjoy guns safely, why millions more enjoy video games without a problem, why violent films entertain billions. All it takes is one incident and instead of blaming the perpetrator, we declare some kind of epidemic requiring the banning of guns, video games, music, etc.

Gun control becomes our short-sighted band-aid, a way to make ourselves and our politicians feel like they are doing something when in actuality we're doing nothing. Banning guns is obviously turning out to be ridiculously easy, with people only too willing to surrender their rights. But counseling some poor soul before they explode into a fireball of bullet-loaded fury, oh, that's apparently too much for our society to handle :roll:

But again, that's the whole problem with the gun control issue to begin with; we're all programmed by the media to instantly HATE guns. Guns are linked to every kind of societal taboo or social ill that can be imagined. Even saying the word "gun" in casual conversion with most people is like dropping the c-bomb. And if you speak against gun control, you're immediately dismissed as a second-class citizen. You're a crazy; a "from-my-cold-dead-hands" head case to be caricatured in a Michael Moore "documentary." In this climate, I'm not surprised no one gives a damn.

It is an erosion of rights. It's all done in the name of the "common good", the interests of the "public health," the safety and security of "our children." It's emotional blackmail to justify the denial of our rights. Our own good intentions paving the road to hell. Who is the government to tell me I can't smoke, can't own a gun, I can't play a video game? And why aren't people outraged by the very thought of this big brother transgression against us? Why are they willing to lay down their very rights just for a little piece of mind? I was taught Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither, but sometimes I feel awfully lonely.

Well BB, you better get into office soon :)



Ha... saw this coming! I was just trying to illustrate a point with some hyperbole, I don't actually think guns are by nature bad or anything like that, and I actually agree with 99% of your post - I just think that some rights aren't necessarily a good thing. Liberty and security have to be balanced, pure liberty wouldn't do anyone any good. I agree though that it's a mistake to sacrifice too much liberty for security, but I just want to make people think about it rationally and realize that total liberty is a joke that wouldn't help anyone - I don't claim to have the slightest clue where im the middle would be best though.

I do agree with you 100% though about all those things being made into scapegoats and bandaid solutions.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 14:23

SwordMaster wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
SwordMaster wrote:You know most Canadians are not big on guns...


Yet they have the best snipers... :think:

That being said I would worry about having a loaded shotgun in the house.


Did the story say it was loaded?


LOL, well I should have been clear about handguns. We love our big guns and hunting gear. As for the snipers... Canada may hold the record for longest recorded kill, but I think the SEALs and RANGERS and probally 50x as many SWAT teams, no question USA has the most snipers and overall best trained... We just have a handful that can cap talibanis in the head from 2.5 KMs.

If the gun was loaded or not, the ammo was near by. Since the story is fictional anyways... well I guess its mute.


That's "moot", Jessie Jackson. :P

FZ, do you have guns with ammo in your home and do your kids know where they are hidden? And will you train your kids to use guns safley?


At present, I do not. When I feel my youngest child (Princess - 3) is old enough to handle the responsibility I will. I plan on buying a shotgun, at least, to clean while drinking beer in my underwear when her dates come to pick her up.

I don't see any point in having a weapon for home defense if it is locked up.

I will probably test their integrity with a B-B gun first.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 14:24

Blaming guns for murder is like blaming spoons for obesity.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Apr 2009 14:38

Baraka Bryan wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Blaming guns for murder is like blaming spoons for obesity.

:text-goodpost: :text-+1:


Heard it a million times, can't dissagree but it's getting a bit old.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 14:40

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Baraka Bryan wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Blaming guns for murder is like blaming spoons for obesity.

:text-goodpost: :text-+1:


Heard it a million times, can't dissagree but it's getting a bit old.


It's a good analogy, I had to say it at least once in this topic.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Lundse » 16 Apr 2009 14:41

Freakzilla wrote:Blaming guns for murder is like blaming spoons for obesity.


And blaming the prevalence of guns in the average household for accidental killings, teen suicides and home robbers with itchy trigger fingers is like blaming the high amount of car ownership for traffic accidents...


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