PIRATES!

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Eyes High
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby Eyes High » 15 Apr 2009 10:21

That's why they are the "Elite". They can do the stuff that the avg person or soldier could not do.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby SwordMaster » 15 Apr 2009 10:34

No question, they are good, they are the best. FZ would have made a decent sniper also though, maybe a SEAL. I was also in recruitment for a military program at the age of 7. My mother would not allow it however.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby SwordMaster » 15 Apr 2009 10:42

Im still suprised they did not just lob some tear gas in there or something. But however they do it, just fuckin do it.

Love it when badguys get killed.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby Drunken Idaho » 15 Apr 2009 11:06

They're at it again!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8000447.stm

A failed attempt, but it looks like the French took care of them. Apparently there have been four attempts in total in the last few days.

This is great news for Pastafarians who might be concerned about Global Warming! :dance:
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby SandRider » 15 Apr 2009 11:23

Say Freak, those are some crazy looking MOSs.
Is that current ? I know they've changed them
up alot over the years ...
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Eyes High
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby Eyes High » 15 Apr 2009 11:35

'Revenge attack'

Pirates have vowed to avenge the deaths of those killed in recent rescue operations by US and French forces.

After the attack on Liberty Sun, one pirate told AFP news agency they had intended to destroy the ship and its crew.

Abdi Garad said: "The aim of this attack was totally different. We were not after a ransom.

"We also assigned a team with special equipment to chase and destroy any ship flying the American flag in retaliation for the brutal killing of our friends."


Doesn't it seem ironic when the bad guys talk about getting back at someone when their 'friends' have been killed in the process of a crime. How many innocent civilians have these piriates killed? And they are mad because some of them have died while being piriates?

Oh please. :roll:
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby Omphalos » 15 Apr 2009 11:40

Its been more than a week and I still cant help but think

Avast, ye scurvy dogs, and prepare ta' be barded!


Every time I see this damn thread.

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Re: PIRATES!

Postby Omphalos » 15 Apr 2009 11:45

Eyes High wrote:
'Revenge attack'

Pirates have vowed to avenge the deaths of those killed in recent rescue operations by US and French forces.

After the attack on Liberty Sun, one pirate told AFP news agency they had intended to destroy the ship and its crew.

Abdi Garad said: "The aim of this attack was totally different. We were not after a ransom.

"We also assigned a team with special equipment to chase and destroy any ship flying the American flag in retaliation for the brutal killing of our friends."


Doesn't it seem ironic when the bad guys talk about getting back at someone when their 'friends' have been killed in the process of a crime. How many innocent civilians have these piriates killed? And they are mad because some of them have died while being piriates?

Oh please. :roll:


i think this one deserves a different way of thinking, Eyes. These guys aren't residents of a rich nation going out to get treasure for an adventure. They are doing what they can to survive in a "nation" that provides zero services to them and is completely lawless. Still, I do think that bullets are probably the best answer for the problem they present, but I can't find much fault for their reactions. I can imagine what their lives are like. The only tools for diplomacy are firearms. Nobody has any education at all. Food and water are scarce. If you don't join a warlord, you are a peasant slave your entire life. It's gotta be pretty hard. In an us vs. them mentality, there is no such thing as an "innocent civilian."

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Re: PIRATES!

Postby SandRider » 15 Apr 2009 12:17

'Revenge attack'

Pirates have vowed to avenge the deaths of those killed in recent rescue operations by US and French forces.

After the attack on Liberty Sun, one pirate told AFP news agency they had intended to destroy the ship and its crew.

Abdi Garad said: "The aim of this attack was totally different. We were not after a ransom.

"We also assigned a team with special equipment to chase and destroy any ship flying the American flag in retaliation for the brutal killing of our friends."



hyping up the justifications for another adventure in Somalia ?
I was hoping things would be different under Barak. Gonna hafta
watch his ass close on this one ... but maybe he'll get so bogged
down in the Afghan/Pakistan thing ... on the other hand, invading
Somalia would be a whole helluva lot easier that taking on the
Pakis ....
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby GamePlayer » 15 Apr 2009 12:26

Perhaps it is a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation.
But we can't be emotionally blackmailed by the problem. Whether these pirates are operating out of criminal opportunity for greed or if the pirates are desperate people surviving via piracy in a war torn nation with little alternative (or the situation has bred both) is really irrelevant. As the saying goes, create enough chaos and everyone becomes a criminal.

But the alternative is to let the victims who work in the shipping industries of all these countries go unprotected and that's no alternative of any kind. Does it suck because the "enemy" in this case might be starving people driven to desperation? Yes. Should that stop us from putting a bullet through the head of any pirate if it means some ship captain can do his job without fear and go home to his family at the end of the day? There is no question we shouldn't hesitate, at least not in my mind.

Then comes the inevitable blame game. Are we and our ancestors to blame for the current problems in these nations? Shouldn't we be doing something about these war torn nations to stop this trickle down effect of piracy from ever beginning? Why aren't we involved?

Then comes the blame shifts again. Our military's become involved with the invasion of these countries only for more innocent people to be killed. People at home blame our own soldiers for being the victims of our own good intentions and violently question why we got involved in the first place. We blame ourselves for arrogantly getting involved and trying to police the world where we've no right.

Which brings us full circle; damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Moral of the story: arrest the pirates and shoot if necessary.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 15 Apr 2009 12:51

From what I've heard, these pirates actually started as local fishermen who were muscled out of their fishing territory by foreign fishing companies, so they started fighting back and exacting a "tax" from the larger fishing boats they boarded - what else could they do really? I don't think it's right, but it certainly has a bit of poetic justice to it. BUT - then they realized they could just start robbing people and make way more money than if they were fishing, and to me that is when they really became pirates. Quasi-justifiable from their point of veiw or not we still obviosly have to fight back with bullets, but if we want this to go away forever our only option is trying to fix the system that forced them into that corner in the first place. It's the same deal as with terrorists, no choice but to kill them off as fast as possible, but that solves zero if we don't take away the forces that created terrorists in the first place. And by fix I don't mean send in armies (sometimes I do mean that though) I mean set up more moral regulations on the foriegn activities our big companies are involved in and do our best to force other countries to enact the same kind of laws. That, and educate our own consumers as to what purchases help the world and which hurt it (like the "fari trade" logos and so-forth), I'm a pretty strong beliver that carefully regulated and orchestrated capitalism could fix most of the problems in the world.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby GamePlayer » 15 Apr 2009 13:31

Regulation is not something to which I'm totally opposed. But the system is in place and it's up to everyone involved (not just us) to ensure that system in place is actually working. It's like the illegal immigrants working in the domestic fast food industry; tens of thousands work for pennies in fast food slaughterhouses just for the chance to stay in the U.S. But you can't blame savy fast food companies for seizing advantage of an unbeatable work force available in their own country. We set the stage and we make the rules. If the rules break down and lead to the exploitation of a work force for which their are no rules, then the system should be changed. It does no good to blame to fast food companies or the people working for these industries, who are ultimately our family and friends.

Digressing, the system has obviously broken down in Somalia and that's the problem. But when ships are attacked and some pirate jams a kalashnikov against the head of a shipping worker from wherever, my sympathy ends.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby Drunken Idaho » 15 Apr 2009 13:49

GP and ATOE, both of you pretty much hit the nail on the head!

GP, the blame game goes on forever. The same could be said for both the culture clash between Islam and the west, as well as the ongoing wars over there. So, in light of current events, neither side is going to let themselves be walked on...

But it seems to me that more than anything, it boils down to the west's extravagant way of living that has caused not only hate, but real consequences for entire societies.

SR, I agree with you that I don't like how war-friendly Obama is turning out to be. The upcoming invasion of Afghanistan/Pakistan seems only vaguely necessary. I realize that there is still a large faction of extremists out there, hell-bent on watching America topple, but even if you squash Al Qeida/the Taliban, how many young men have already been pissed off enough by the US to grow up to start their own terrorist groups? I think this is something Frank Herbert would consider a given. Occupation begets hatred/war/terrorism. I will give Obama credit for handling the rescue of that captain pretty well. Very slick indeed. I was watching the Cafferty File on CNN the other day, where people write in, and someone said something to the effect of:

"Obama's handling of the pirate situation was precise and surgical. Bush would have invaded Peru."

Which made me laugh. Funny, but a damned good point.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 15 Apr 2009 14:00

GamePlayer wrote:Regulation is not something to which I'm totally opposed. But the system is in place and it's up to everyone involved (not just us) to ensure that system in place is actually working. It's like the illegal immigrants working in the domestic fast food industry; tens of thousands work for pennies in fast food slaughterhouses just for the chance to stay in the U.S. But you can't blame savy fast food companies for seizing advantage of an unbeatable work force available in their own country. We set the stage and we make the rules. If the rules break down and lead to the exploitation of a work force for which their are no rules, then the system should be changed. It does no good to blame to fast food companies or the people working for these industries, who are ultimately our family and friends.

Digressing, the system has obviously broken down in Somalia and that's the problem. But when ships are attacked and some pirate jams a kalashnikov against the head of a shipping worker from wherever, my sympathy ends.


I agree, except for one distinction, you seem to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that one shouldn't blame the companies taking advantage of the broken system, but rather blame the system and put some responsibility on everyone to fix it? I agree with it being everyone's responsibility to make sure the system works, but that doesn't mean I don't lay blame upon those who exploit it's weaknesses as well, it just means I don't lay blame on them exlusively. It does no good to blame them exclusively, but it does no good to pretend they aren't doing anything wrong either, family and friends or not (I wouldn't let someone off the hook for a crime just because I care about them). Am I dissagreeing with you or am I missing something?
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby GamePlayer » 15 Apr 2009 16:07

You're confusing legal with illegal. Companies shouldn't be blamed for seizing opportunities in a given legal/economic system because of the realities of capitalism and the effects of macroeconomics. The whole point behind a capitalist system is to reward innovative ideas and encourage business that builds economic growth within the system we set for it. Punish these companies for employing business strategies that work within a given system and you sabotage the prime directive of that system. The effects of macroeconomics ensure that big business has a undeniable effect upon society at large and the jobs of our family and friends become linked to the fate of these companies (a fact the impending fall of the NA automotive manufacturers is putting into vivid focus). Legally, these companies aren't doing anything wrong, not the fast food companies employing immigrant workers and not the shipping companies in Somalian waters. Morally, their actions are questionable, but that's an issue of public policy, not a legal issue. Companies cannot and should not be blamed legally for working within a system where we set the rules. If our rules are at fault, we are at fault, not business.

It's our responsibility to set the standard for the way in which our businesses function. If we take into account the way business influences/finances policy makers and account for corruption in any system, our system for effecting change doesn't always work the way it should. But yet again, that's a policy issue, not a business or legal issue. In other words, not something for which we can lay blame on companies.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 15 Apr 2009 16:54

GamePlayer wrote:You're confusing legal with illegal. Companies shouldn't be blamed for seizing opportunities in a given legal/economic system because of the realities of capitalism and the effects of macroeconomics. The whole point behind a capitalist system is to reward innovative ideas and encourage business that builds economic growth within the system we set for it. Punish these companies for employing business strategies that work within a given system and you sabotage the prime directive of that system. The effects of macroeconomics ensure that big business has a undeniable effect upon society at large and the jobs of our family and friends become linked to the fate of these companies (a fact the impending fall of the NA automotive manufacturers is putting into vivid focus). Legally, these companies aren't doing anything wrong, not the fast food companies employing immigrant workers and not the shipping companies in Somalian waters. Morally, their actions are questionable, but that's an issue of public policy, not a legal issue. Companies cannot and should not be blamed legally for working within a system where we set the rules. If our rules are at fault, we are at fault, not business.

It's our responsibility to set the standard for the way in which our businesses function. If we take into account the way business influences/finances policy makers and account for corruption in any system, our system for effecting change doesn't always work the way it should. But yet again, that's a policy issue, not a business or legal issue. In other words, not something for which we can lay blame on companies.


Of course, don't worry; I definitely have not confused moral and legal!

I agree with you totally, if our rules are at fault we are at fault, and we are to blame more than the companies. But when I say that I do lay blame on those companies that exploit it, I’m not talking legally, this is where I think you misunderstand me – you are of course right that legally they are not liable. They are however morally liable (as you said), and should be held responsible by their customers IMO. Did you think I meant that these companies should be legally punished for these “crimes”? Because I don’t – unless we fixed the rules and they continued operating as they do currently, then it’s a different story. What I am saying is that this can be influenced by more than regulation. If the customers decide that morals are important to them and start voting with their dollars it will go a long way towards convincing those companies to clean up their acts – I don’t think it’ll solve the problems but it will help some until the legal system catches up.

I’m not talking about hamstringing capitalism by legally going after companies that haven’t broken the law. When I say “blame” I don’t mean “prosecute”, blame isn’t a legal term to me, it has totally different connotations. They are partially responsible for unnecessary suffering (as are all of us who support this broken system as you already pointed out), and as such they are to blame. Not legally – literally. That's what blame means to me, it's more of a real-world term than a legal one.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 12:46

Sounds like a job for Blackwater!
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby TheDukester » 16 Apr 2009 15:23

Baraka Bryan wrote:personally, I think it's a good idea...

Same here.

Going armed into an area of the world where order has completely broken down isn't that big of a stretch. Come get some, Mr. Pirate!
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Apr 2009 15:26

TheDukester wrote:
Baraka Bryan wrote:personally, I think it's a good idea...

Same here.

Going armed into an area of the world where order has completely broken down isn't that big of a stretch. Come get some, Mr. Pirate!


I'd have to agree.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Apr 2009 15:43

For the record from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster:

Real pirates use swords (cutlasses, actually). Those “pirates” in the south pacific [Indian Ocean] are guys with machine guns, cruising around in power-boats. They’re not pirates. And the song-downloading “pirates” are smelly nerds, and therefore not real pirates.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Apr 2009 15:44

Freakzilla wrote:For the record from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster:

Real pirates use swords (cutlasses, actually). Those “pirates” in the south pacific [Indian Ocean] are guys with machine guns, cruising around in power-boats. They’re not pirates. And the song-downloading “pirates” are smelly nerds, and therefore not real pirates.



RAmen.
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby GamePlayer » 16 Apr 2009 17:28

LOL :)
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby Omphalos » 16 Apr 2009 19:10

Yarrrrr, Matey!

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Re: PIRATES!

Postby SwordMaster » 16 Apr 2009 19:50

Black Water = Stark Wood

24 anyone?

Im really suprised they do not go in with heavy equipment already! Ron Paul is actually a guy I have a lot of time for. He reminds me of Grover Clevland who is a very under appreciated president. I think Ron Paul has a lot of the sort of solutions as Grover, and they are effective ones.

So anyone have a reason why a billion dollar oil tanker does not have hired guns on it when they sail?
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Re: PIRATES!

Postby GamePlayer » 18 Apr 2009 13:32

I don't even care about the legalities of pirated movies, music or software at this point. I'm getting rather tired of hearing these companies cry about copyright and I'm sick of their litigious proceedings. If the movie and music industries would have got their shit together (what...going on a decade ago now) this would never have even been an issue. People wanted their movies and music online...period. So if you're a business, provide the service your customers want. Isn't that what our capitalist economic systems are supposed to be about?

Instead, we have businesses suddenly (and quite ironically) pulling out their worst socialist leanings and demanding everyone stick to the old ways. All this legal wrangling has done is slow down and hamper the ability of services like iTunes to supply the consumer with what they want. If free availability is easy, make legal availability even easier, NOT harder. Problem solved.
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