Global Warming

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Re: Global Warming

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 17 Jun 2009 17:36

Baraka Bryan wrote:AToE, I agree with you on that.. anyone who truly believes in Christ but chooses to live out that faith apart from organized religion is a Christian. I'm not talking about those people.

I'm talking about the people who truly do just pay lip service to the idea. I have friends who will say whenever religion comes up, "ya i was baptized as a kid... i dont know much about it and it has no influence on my life whatsoever, but sure, I'm a Christian." that isn't a living faith. SAYING you believe in something but not actually BELIEVING it or letting it have an impact on your life in any way is not the same thing.

going to church on Easter and Christmas out of tradition, but not reading the Word, praying, or thinking about what you say is your faith for the rest of the year is not true faith. say what you want about me judging, but I'm fairly certain Lewis would agree with me. (and yes, I've read many of his books, including Mere Christianity)


Of course, I wasn't arguing with you on those points. I was arguing against when seemed to be insinuating that the numbers of Christians in the poles were vastly inflated by fakers, which I don't agree with. Christians are a vast majority in this country.

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...faith without works is dead - James 2: 26b

Don't need to read Lewis to know lip-service doesn't count.


Oh, I wasn't saying it counts, I was arguing against BB when he seemed to be saying that "real" Christians are a minority in Canada, which is not at all true.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby SandChigger » 17 Jun 2009 22:42

Hey, what the hell are fakirs doing saying they're Christians?! Damned Muslims and Hindus! :twisted:

Sorry, but the REAL Christians all died about two thousand years ago.

Now Paulians, there's lots of them around. :P
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Jun 2009 08:18

Baraka Bryan wrote:I was going to quote that passage, but the debate here was more about true faith vs. insincere faith than faith vs works.


What was the topic again? :?
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Jun 2009 10:00

Baraka Bryan wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Baraka Bryan wrote:I was going to quote that passage, but the debate here was more about true faith vs. insincere faith than faith vs works.


What was the topic again? :?



the actual proportion of Canadians that are Christian


No... it's Global Warming. :doh:
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Re: Global Warming

Postby SandChigger » 19 Jun 2009 12:27

I'm sure the topics can be combined.

Which was more environmentally friendly, burning Xians at the stake or feeding them to the lions? :P

(Not that, as a sexular humanist, I condone either activity, mind you! :D )
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Jun 2009 13:46

SandChigger wrote:I'm sure the topics can be combined.

Which was more environmentally friendly, burning Xians at the stake or feeding them to the lions? :P

(Not that, as a sexular humanist, I condone either activity, mind you! :D )


I'd guess feeding them to lions.

Sure the lions will emit some methane but the remainder will still be in the food chain.

Burning them is just wastefull, IMO.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby SandChigger » 19 Jun 2009 19:58

Isn't there some agricultural use for ash? :P

Speaking of religious crazies, two nice Jehovah's Witness ladies just dingdonged me while I was typing my Twitter War post. :roll:

It's like 9:45 AM Saturday morning and they're prowling the neighborhood, all dressed up in their Everyday=Sunday-best, cute little parasols in hand (even though it's overcast and a ray of sunlight or two wouldn't have done either of their complexions anything but good, anyway), proffering copies of the Japanese version of The Watchtower. God love them.

'Cause I sure don't. Do I stalk their neighborhoods and come to their houses to tell them about sexular humanism? NO.

So I flashed them my willy and slammed the door. :twisted:

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Re: Global Warming

Postby Eyes High » 19 Jun 2009 22:38

SandChigger wrote:Isn't there some agricultural use for ash? :P

Speaking of religious crazies, two nice Jehovah's Witness ladies just dingdonged me while I was typing my Twitter War post. :roll:

It's like 9:45 AM Saturday morning and they're prowling the neighborhood, all dressed up in their Everyday=Sunday-best, cute little parasols in hand (even though it's overcast and a ray of sunlight or two wouldn't have done either of their complexions anything but good, anyway), proffering copies of the Japanese version of The Watchtower. God love them.

'Cause I sure don't. Do I stalk their neighborhoods and come to their houses to tell them about sexular humanism? NO.

So I flashed them my willy and slammed the door. :twisted:



In that case, I bet their faces got REALLY WARM. Talk about global warming. :naughty:
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Re: Global Warming

Postby SandChigger » 20 Jun 2009 01:32

Wouldn't it only be global if they felt warm (and flushed) all over? :P
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Re: Global Warming

Postby GamePlayer » 20 Jun 2009 11:08

JW's canvasing in Japan? Now I have heard everything. :roll:
So, did their visit make you feel like home? :)

Now that I think about it, I haven't even been bothered by a religious crazy trying to sell snake oil door-to-door for years. I have encountered the "Excuse me, are you Jewish?" guys that pack hunt in downtown Toronto, but they are only out once a year, I think. Besides, coming up with witty retorts to that question is always fun :)

By far, the worst modern ask-and-grab plague are the chuggers. They stand around with that smack-me-I'm-annoying smile on their faces, stupid multi-colored binder in hand, just lying in wait when you round that busy street corner to verbally assault you. I've even had them follow me for nearly a block, tapping me on the shoulder when it's clear I mean to ignore them with my iPod. I particularly enjoy the strategic corner coverage, especially when they have 12 or more covering an intersection at all four corners. The city should look into hiring them for traffic; they are probably the best method for alleviating foot congestion on city streets. But you gotta had it to the chuggers, they utilize a rather clever amalgam of tried-and-true guilt mixed with celebrity-endorsed causes or trendy post-green movements. The catholics should be taking notes :)
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Re: Global Warming

Postby SandChigger » 20 Jun 2009 12:29

Yeah, yeah, it's not just the homegrown cults you have to dodge; the Witnesses and Mormons have been over here for years, if not forever. But the native ones are more interesting, like the lady who showed up about two weeks ago wanting to read my palm and tell my fortune from the Kanji used to write my name. :P

Speaking of Kanji and names... Schu, if you're reading this, here's something fun for you:

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:laughing:

(Oh yeah, and tell him to get a decent font, not that dot-matrix shit. :lol: )

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Re:

Postby Drunken Idaho » 01 Dec 2009 17:27

So... This almost deserves a whole new topic. But whatever, I'll begin with by quoting myself from several months ago:

Drunken Idaho wrote:But it's not just greenpeace, not even just Al Gore or David Suzuki... It's scientists! That's right, the scientific community. No one has any other agenda, except for preserving a livable environment for humans. People don't attack cars and CO2 emissions just for fun. They have solid reasons, and it all has to do with the greenhouse effect. This is basic stuff.


This was me putting faith in the climate scientists (particularly those involved with the IPCC, who wrote the reports upon which we've all been basing much of our knowledge of climate change). That was me, before I found out about Climategate.

What is Climategate? It's the name recently given to the scandal that different scientific groups on the IPCC have been involved with, apparently since 1995 (possibly even earlier). What's the scandal? It's essentially the fudging of facts when it comes to certain aspects of climate change science. For instance, temperature cycles in previous millenia were made to look less significant, whereas recent decades were made to look a lot warmer than they actually were. This was mainly done through tricky equations and much gap-filling of data when it came to tree-ring research and ice-core samples. I'm still reading up on it, but so far that seems to be how they're doing it.

How did this all come out into the public? News sources have been saying that a hacker illegally obtained tons of emails and documents from the server of the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit in the UK. I'm more inclined to believe that this wasn't necessarily a hacker, but instead a whistleblower. The reason I think so is because, while it certainly isn't just a random selection of emails, the emails released tell a particular story. By the way, download the emails here and judge for yourself:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XD050VKY

The story they tell is that of a small group of leaders on the IPCC slowly devising ways to use certain information either in the wrong light, or falsifying data in subtle ways. These emails go as far back as 1996, and I've only begun reading them, but so far it reads like a legal thriller. A full picture is slowly unraveling, and I'm interested to see exactly what it is.

So does this mean climate change is a myth? Certainly not. The simple science remains that greenhouses get hot, and humans create lots of greenhouse cases. Is humanity responsible for some kind of climate catastrophe any time in the near future? Apparently we're not. Apparently these scientists knew from the get-go that the changes we make in the composition of the atmosphere are a drop in the bucket (a notion that until recently I would have balked at), and that oceans will always have more of an influence on climate than we do. Also, apparently the polar ice caps won't melt and sea levels won't rise with even a 4-degree rise in average global temp like the earth saw during a period of warming roughly 5000 BCE, let alone the 1-degree increase we see right now. There's also lots more to this, I'll try to keep you updated as I read these emails.

But why male models? That is, why would the IPCC fudge the facts? According to people at the Climatic Research Unit, they oversimplified the severity of man-made global warming, but they did this in order to counter the oversimplification by those corporate and political interests who would claim that it's all nothing to be concerned about. I've also heard that the small group at the top of the IPCC were trying to gain influence on policy and legislation. Either way, I'm thinking that this whistleblower must have gotten fed up with the lies, and I thank him/her. I've always been a staunch advocate for action against man-made climate change and other environmental issues, and I still am, but I had put my faith in people who claimed to represent the scientific community, but apparently did not. I'm disappointed in those lying scientists, but on the plus side these emails should be quite entertaining to read (oh, and I guess doomsday isn't necessarily immediately around the corner too).

Any thoughts?
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Re: Global Warming

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Dec 2009 17:48

I'm interested to see how this pans out.

I find it amusing that even though the "right" has been spouting BS that they made up to justify polluting more - they may have been correct by accident. By simply trying to protect their own profits, their lies turned out to actually line up with the truth hidden by the "other side".

This is very good news (even though it will make me look like a jackass to some degree) in that we're not as deep into the climate change hole as we thought we were, and are unlikely to dig ourselves deeper in the near future.

It's also VERY bad news, because now those bullshit artists can claim that they were right all along. Real science just lost face, and psuedo-science rightwing people just gained credibility. That's going to proove very dangerous, because now we're going to see both the "boy who cried wolf" effect, and have the people who stand in the way of anti-pollution laws look like they were in the right all along.





I honestly don't know if I'm happy or sad about this. I've been saying all along that the whole climate change issue was just the tip of the iceberg of the damage we're doing to the environment.

We still have a garbage patch in the pacific that is bigger than Texas, we still have people getting cancer more and more often because of all the pollution in our water, air and food. We still have species going extinct, and fragile balances in nature collapsing. Bees are starting to be in serious danger, and if the bees die then the human race dies, end of story.

And now, because some idiots (allegedly) cried wolf - we might not see the necessary changes come into effect. People will use this as an excuse to drive their big gas guzzlers, and to buy products shipped all the way around the world, and to do business with companies like Shell.

And the next time scientists need to warn us about something threatening our existance, the rightwing will tell everyone to ignore them, and everyone will.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Ampoliros » 01 Dec 2009 18:05

Dude, haven't you seen V (the original)

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Re: Global Warming

Postby Omphalos » 01 Dec 2009 18:11

Just relax and sniff the cattlefarts, with the peace of mind that only Mother Earth can bring.

Although now we may have to put up with Freak wagging his finger at us, telling us, "I told you so!"

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Re: Global Warming

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Dec 2009 18:15

Omphalos wrote:Although now we may have to put up with Freak wagging his finger at us, telling us, "I told you so!"


"May" have to? Dude, he's going to be all over this. I'll die of old age before I hear the end of it!

Oh well, that's the difference between science and religion, even if finding out the truth is humiliating, angering, saddening, etc, we still have to aplaud the person who caused us the pain for bringing truth.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Redstar » 01 Dec 2009 19:02

So is it real, or just another conservative hoax? Or just a liberal prank?

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Re: Global Warming

Postby Drunken Idaho » 01 Dec 2009 19:18

Redstar wrote:So is it real, or just another conservative hoax? Or just a liberal prank?


It seems to be the real deal. These emails are to intricately detailed to be falsified. The data they discuss, the addresses, times, dates, flight numbers, the little jokes they make... It all looks legit. And besides, many CRU scientists have already come out, admitting the exaggeration or falsification of data. Some of them even defend the reports of the IPCC, regardless of the emails. They say that the IPCC is so inclusive that anyone's bias would be well sifted-out by the time they released the full reports. I'd have to continue digging into these emails (which is a lot of fun, by the way) to confirm how true that really is.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I'm interested to see how this pans out.

I find it amusing that even though the "right" has been spouting BS that they made up to justify polluting more - they may have been correct by accident. By simply trying to protect their own profits, their lies turned out to actually line up with the truth hidden by the "other side".

This is very good news (even though it will make me look like a jackass to some degree) in that we're not as deep into the climate change hole as we thought we were, and are unlikely to dig ourselves deeper in the near future.

It's also VERY bad news, because now those bullshit artists can claim that they were right all along. Real science just lost face, and psuedo-science rightwing people just gained credibility. That's going to proove very dangerous, because now we're going to see both the "boy who cried wolf" effect, and have the people who stand in the way of anti-pollution laws look like they were in the right all along.



I honestly don't know if I'm happy or sad about this. I've been saying all along that the whole climate change issue was just the tip of the iceberg of the damage we're doing to the environment.

We still have a garbage patch in the pacific that is bigger than Texas, we still have people getting cancer more and more often because of all the pollution in our water, air and food. We still have species going extinct, and fragile balances in nature collapsing. Bees are starting to be in serious danger, and if the bees die then the human race dies, end of story.

And now, because some idiots (allegedly) cried wolf - we might not see the necessary changes come into effect. People will use this as an excuse to drive their big gas guzzlers, and to buy products shipped all the way around the world, and to do business with companies like Shell.

And the next time scientists need to warn us about something threatening our existance, the rightwing will tell everyone to ignore them, and everyone will.


My thoughts exactly, Thing. I'm hoping science isn't completely discredited in a majority of the minds of the people who read about this. You're right about all those other issues. The oceans are still fucked, and I must say that I still find the idea of humanity living in harmony with its environment both very appealing and very logical. But it's true, the right's gonna love this.

Omphalos wrote:Although now we may have to put up with Freak wagging his finger at us, telling us, "I told you so!"


:lol: That's partly why I began the post by quoting my own erroneous ways! :P
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Freakzilla » 01 Dec 2009 20:06

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They're predicing snow flurries in Atlanta on Saturday.

:lol:
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Drunken Idaho » 01 Dec 2009 22:18

:lol: FSM save us!

And for the record, the former science of climate change was a lot more complex than "temperature goes up, no more snow!"

But I guess there's no point in bickering about all that anymore...
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Re: Global Warming

Postby trang » 01 Dec 2009 23:05

went back thru, cant believe I didn't comment on this thread, unless it was in another one. I will look at emails when I am home, not enough time here at work. It would seem that if what your saying is true, its along the lines I have believed all along, its all bullshit and has been. The simple fact is, was, has, always will be:

The climate changes... period.

Not using plastic bags, not farting, not driving a 10mpG gas sucker, is not gonna make a difference, period. We got plenty of resources, plenty of square mileage available per person, we could handle 3 times what the population is now and mother earth wont bat an eyeball.

The problem is the evil of money and greed that goes with it, Haves vs Have not's. Living in harmony with nature would be great... but we don't live in harmony with each other??

The two things we need most, oxygen and water, in that order.. would be my concerns. Stopping the land grabbing assholes from deforesting the planet would probably be a good idea.

Develop the Desalinization plants along the coasts and build the fresh water lines to pump/distribute it where it is needed.

We have oxygen and water... we can produce all the rest we need, no problem, energy, food, shelter.. yada yada.

I'm not on the bandwagon that bee's go we go either. They perform a function on nature for sure, but if they fall short, nature adapts and will replace it with another method.. it might take more years that I can imagine, but the system would compensate. The other is that bee's are not all that complex and beyond our grasp that we could develop an artificial means, again that might take longer in years than I can count, but its very very possible.


weed the greed, tell the fucking truth about things, when its hot... have a cup of lemon aid and get in the shade, when its cold... put on some more cloths, have a warm drink... stop worrying to much.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Freakzilla » 02 Dec 2009 07:44

Drunken Idaho wrote::lol: FSM save us!

And for the record, the former science of climate change was a lot more complex than "temperature goes up, no more snow!"

But I guess there's no point in bickering about all that anymore...


Many places have experience record low temperatures the last couple of years.

Humans think way too highly of ourselvses. We're just hairless apes in fancy caves. It doesn't matter how much we burn things, it won't stop the next ice age.
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Re: Global Warming

Postby lotek » 02 Dec 2009 09:06

Freakzilla wrote:
Drunken Idaho wrote::lol: FSM save us!

And for the record, the former science of climate change was a lot more complex than "temperature goes up, no more snow!"

But I guess there's no point in bickering about all that anymore...


Many places have experience record low temperatures the last couple of years.

Humans think way too highly of ourselvses. We're just hairless apes in fancy caves. It doesn't matter how much we burn things, it won't stop the next ice age.


well not all of us are for nut shaving :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Global Warming

Postby Freakzilla » 02 Dec 2009 09:41

lotek wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Drunken Idaho wrote::lol: FSM save us!

And for the record, the former science of climate change was a lot more complex than "temperature goes up, no more snow!"

But I guess there's no point in bickering about all that anymore...


Many places have experience record low temperatures the last couple of years.

Humans think way too highly of ourselvses. We're just hairless apes in fancy caves. It doesn't matter how much we burn things, it won't stop the next ice age.


well not all of us are for nut shaving :lol: :lol: :lol:


Don't knock it until you try it. :wink:
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Re: Global Warming

Postby lotek » 02 Dec 2009 10:34

who says I didn't? ;)
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