Global Warming

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 19 Feb 2009 15:22

Damn You!

Drunken Idaho · Post by **Drunken Idaho** » 19 Feb 2009 15:42

Well for me, it's all about intelligent living, both individually and as a society.

Climate change is only one way we are continuously making this planet unlivable for us and our way of life. Look into how our oceans are deteriorating, or how deforestation is creating an animal holocaust.

I can't remember which famous scientist said that foresight is the essence of what it is to be human, but I totally agree with that anonymous scientist. The challenges ahead (economy, environment, resources) can either result in WWIII, or it can be humanity's time to shine.

And I certainly realize that the global warming scare fits quite nicely into the whole environment-of-fear thing, of which I've been known to be a critic, but I really feel like burying one's head in the sand isn't the option either. I'd easily trust a majority of scientists over what corporations and politicians would have me believe any day. And like corporations and politicians, scientists have a tendency to disagree, but they don't favour their theories over others. For the most part (and there are certainly exceptions) scientists don't have a motive.

I heard a story about some physicist or mathematician who held a certain theory for most of his life. This theory was his brainchild, and for years it went unchallenged. One day, a young mathematician approached him during a presentation, claiming he could completely disprove his theory. He proceeded to do so on a chalkboard, and after he was finished, the older scientist stood up, with a giant smile, hugged him and said "Thank you." This is the essence of science. The fact that scientists pursue not personal success or notoriety, but instead the truth.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 19 Feb 2009 16:13

It's like religion to me.

I do what I think is right because I think it's right. Not because I'm affraid of the devil.

If I choose to live a more eco-friendly lifestyle, it will be because I should be doing it anyway, not because Al Gore, First Emperor of the Moon, says we're all going to die.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 19 Feb 2009 16:24

The way I see it, the problem will fix itself.

If we are making our atmosphere unlivable, we'll all die, then everything will be back to normal in a couple of hundred years.

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 19 Feb 2009 16:42

^^^ Expert on biosphere dynamics.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 19 Feb 2009 16:48

Did y'all hear about the story of a man who wished to build a house close to the beach out west?

He was refused because where he wished to build would endager the habit of the salt marsh mouse, now this is the good part... not where it's habitat is now, where it's habitat will be after the ocean levels rise from the melting polar caps due to global warming!

You guessed it, it's part of Obama's stimulus bill.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtri ... source=rss

Now that's a crock of shit.

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 19 Feb 2009 17:00

Here's my primary problem with the whole CO2 based Global Warming controversy -

we would not be having this discussion at all if it weren't for a handful of NASA scientists who began
pushing the idea in the late 70s, and gained alot of attention in the 80s with the ozone hole idea.

I personally think the idea of "Global Warming", what that term has come to mean in conventional
wisdom shorthand, is probably overblown. But I was raised to revere NASA. The Mercury Seven
are about the only men on the face of this planet I've ever really truly respected. NASA and the space
program has been the closest thing to a religion I've ever believed in.

So, what the fuck is NASA's agenda ? What's the purpose behind pushing this particular (questionable) theory ?

Drunken Idaho · Post by **Drunken Idaho** » 19 Feb 2009 17:05

SandRider wrote:Here's my primary problem with the whole CO2 based Global Warming controversy -

we would not be having this discussion at all if it weren't for a handful of NASA scientists who began
pushing the idea in the late 70s, and gained alot of attention in the 80s with the ozone hole idea.

I personally think the idea of "Global Warming", what that term has come to mean in conventional
wisdom shorthand, is probably overblown. But I was raised to revere NASA. The Mercury Seven
are about the only men on the face of this planet I've ever really truly respected. NASA and the space
program has been the closest thing to a religion I've ever believed in.

So, what the fuck is NASA's agenda ? What's the purpose behind pushing this particular (questionable) theory ?

Martian Colonization of course!

Post by **Freakzilla** » 19 Feb 2009 17:09

NASA is a government agency, is it not?

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 19 Feb 2009 17:12

well, exactly .....

I think I've been worried about a degradation of the agency itself.

If they did this to increase their funding for climate study, well, I'm appalled. We have to be able to
trust these types of agencies.

It's the same thing as when the CIA began tailoring intelligence to fit the agenda of the Executive in the
1980s. Led to literally hundreds of thousands killed and a complete breakdown of the agency.

NASA was/has been a respected scientic voice in the world. What if some jackass wants to buy
cheap land in Florida and boguses up info on an imminent asteriod strike on Orlando ? What if their
credibility gets shot to hell and they do discover life on Europa ? I've already got people in my
family that are lunar-landing deniers ...

SandChigger · Post by **SandChigger** » 19 Feb 2009 17:18

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 19 Feb 2009 17:20

eye roll, which part ?

Dune Nerd · Post by **Dune Nerd** » 19 Feb 2009 18:12

I am a contractor for NASA and I don't get to participate in too much of the beauracracy but it is there (that being the only downfall of the organization). The arm never knows what the foot is doing. I have been working on a project only to find out that the data was done about 5 years ago. That kind of thing gets frustrating.

All in all though I am with SR and BB, I have loved NASA since I was a child and I still do.

Tyrant · Post by **Tyrant** » 19 Feb 2009 18:21

Dune Nerd wrote:I am a contractor for NASA and I don't get to participate in too much of the beauracracy but it is there (that being the only downfall of the organization).

Its not the only downfall..another downfall is the dinosaurs (space shuttles) they send to space. How the hell are we supposed to advance in space exploration if they keep sending up them old pieces of shit. If you ask me space travel and space exploration doesnt get anywhere near the funding it should. All of our eggs are in one very unstable basket. They need to pull their heads out of their asses and get with the program before its too late.

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 19 Feb 2009 18:48

To be realistic, we're not going to get anything that'll save us if we trash this planet/kill each other (new place to live) out of the space program for the next couple hundred years. Even the prospect of mining in space will be unnecessary and far too expensive for a long bloody time. I like the sentiment of getting our "eggs out of one basket", but it's distant future enough that we shouldn't even consider it a last ditch backup plan for our current situation.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 19 Feb 2009 18:50

The government can't even keep a bar/whorehouse running, I'm amazed NASA even still exists.

Space exploration needs to be turned over to the private sector, sorry dinosaur lovers.

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 19 Feb 2009 18:56

I would agree with that except for that it would result (I would guess, since where's the profit?) in stuff like Hubble being shut down. Everything would switch to being either satellites for broadcast, or military, or manufacturing research. Only Earth orbit distance missions would every have any use. Am I missing anything in that?

SandRider · Post by **SandRider** » 19 Feb 2009 19:01

but again then, Freak, you're talking about space travel for Rich Folk.

Bladerunner action.

As cheesy and unrealistic as the Star Trek scenario was/is, I'd hope
that that is the kind of equal human society we should be working for.

A Thing of Eternity · Post by **A Thing of Eternity** » 19 Feb 2009 20:13

Yeah, it would be fantastic for launching those kinds of missions for purely scientific purposes, but we won't get anything useful out of it, aside from maybe mining the moon. The fuel costs involced in mining anything else would render the whole idea useless.

I'm all for this kind of stuff, but we're not going to get resources or a new home out of it in the next couple lifetimes.

Dune Nerd · Post by **Dune Nerd** » 19 Feb 2009 20:37

Tyrant wrote:
Dune Nerd wrote:I am a contractor for NASA and I don't get to participate in too much of the beauracracy but it is there (that being the only downfall of the organization).

Its not the only downfall..another downfall is the dinosaurs (space shuttles) they send to space. How the hell are we supposed to advance in space exploration if they keep sending up them old pieces of shit. If you ask me space travel and space exploration doesnt get anywhere near the funding it should. All of our eggs are in one very unstable basket. They need to pull their heads out of their asses and get with the program before its too late.

That is being worked on, since the shuttle can't go to the moon they have the new ares vehicles.

And yes of course I agree that more money is good but that is in the politicians hands....

Dune Nerd · Post by **Dune Nerd** » 19 Feb 2009 20:39

Freakzilla wrote:The government can't even keep a bar/whorehouse running, I'm amazed NASA even still exists.

Space exploration needs to be turned over to the private sector, sorry dinosaur lovers.

I don't disagree but I think it needs to be a combination effort. Private industry should absolutely expand but the no profit part will make most companies shy away from the really long complicated missions (at least for now)

Sorry for the double post.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 19 Feb 2009 20:57

As with everything in the US, it should be done privately with federal regulation.

Private companies can do it without an earmark for the fucking salt marsh mouse.

Drunken Idaho · Post by **Drunken Idaho** » 20 Feb 2009 09:59

Baraka Bryan wrote:as a nerd and a huge fan of the idea of space colonization, going to the kennedy space centre and seeing the rockets, the videos, and especially the memorial to the fallen was a moving and even emotional experience. the tom hanks movie on the apollo missions was amazing and actually teared me up at times.

kind of a random interjection, but i guess to sum it up... i love NASA too

Yeah, I'm a NASA fan too. Seeing the Kennedy Space Center was truly amazing. I wish I could have spent more time there, but my parents wanted to get back to Daytona so that my dad could gamble with his hockey friends on horse races

... Anyway, seeing Cape Canaveral was way too cool. Kind of reminded me of Jurassic Park, in that most of the place was a jungle, but there was so much advanced technology around.

I'll agree with Freak that the private sector could be doing more space exploration, but I don't think he means orbital vacations for rich people. I'd like to see actual science and exploration being conducted by private companies (with careful regulation, of course).

Dune Nerd wrote:The arm never knows what the foot is doing

Whoa, wait... I've heard of the Canadarm, but not the Canadafoot...

Post by **Freakzilla** » 20 Feb 2009 10:14

Yeah, by private, I mean not government. The problem with democratic or republic forms seems to me the amount of time and money wasted. It's takes a long time and is very expensive to please the majority.

Post by **Freakzilla** » 20 Feb 2009 10:30

I'd like to take the kids here:

http://www.spacecamp.com/museum/#