Health Care

[A Thing of Eternity]

Wow, that's a lot of margin!

I use Paxil and pay for 100 tablets $10 bucks, get it directly from my doctor.

Rob

Really? That's really good. I used to take that stuff and I think it was more like $80 for 30 tabs, I could be remembering that wrong though.

[Freakzilla]

I think marijuana could be substituted for many of those drugs with a similar effect.

[Drunken Idaho]

I think marijuana could be substituted for many of those drugs with a similar effect.

EXAAAAACTLY!

Everybody just needs to chill.

[SandRider]

Government (public) schools aren't there to create inspired youth, they are there to create easily lead government subjects.

that is exactly right, and one of the reasons the South fought The War.

I've probably talked about it before, but there is a FAN-tastic line in
Ride With the Devil where the old man is bitching about those
jayhawkers coming into Kansas and building their little schoolhouse
before anything else ....

[Crysknife]

Holy shit....That should come in handy Freak. Thanks.

Edit: (For the Costco article)

[Freakzilla]

BUMP

[A Thing of Eternity]

I'm not in the mood to get into it, I just wanted to make sure that anyone who didn't know already was informed that the republican attack adds are out and out propaganda, and are full of shit. FYI.

[Freakzilla]

In response to Thing's post in Political Humor...

I have health care, good health care. AND I PAY FOR IT.

We already have government healthcare, it's called Medicare, Medicaid and then there's the Veteran's Administration. You want to give freeloaders healthcare, open one of those up to them. We don't need another poorly run government healthcare service.

Why fuck up MY (and my children's) healthcare for a minority (310M vs 40M... half of that 40M COULD have it but chose to have other things)?

[Nekhrun]

Jon Stewart ripped the shit out of Bill Kristol last night. You can watch the entire interview at the Comedy Central website. But there was a great Health Care exchange between the two. Here's the episode: http://www.hulu.com/watch/85768/the-dai ... s-p1-so-i0

[A Thing of Eternity]

I'm not telling you to support change to Obama's plan, hell, I don't even know much about his plan. Maybe it is a total peice of shit. I'm just letting you know that what the republicans are saying in their advertisements and saying on their news network (FOX) is 99% obvious lies, and they know they're lies, they obviously don't give a shit about telling their citizens the truth, they just want to oppose the other party at any cost. If you've arrived at the conclusion that Obama's plan is going to hurt you based on your own logic and your own research, I have no issue with that - you may be right. I just hope the current scare-mongering BS campaign wasn't a deciding factor, because it is being pulled out of their asses.

No big deal to me, it's not my country (and maybe that healthcare system is working great for you). My issue isn't that the republicans oppose the plan, it's the way they've chosen to do so.

The rest of the world is laughing at the republican propaganda machine. Laughing hard. Makes for good TV.

[Freakzilla]

My fear is that his plan will make my insurance cost more, which I cannot afford.

The US Federal government couldn't make a profit if they ran a bar with a whorehouse in the back.

Besides, is NOW the time to be spending trillions of dollars when a huge majority of the american public is happy with their coverage?

I don't think it's going to pass through congress with the Government HC option anyway.

God only knows how many THOUSANDS of earmarks this bill will have, like his "STIMULUS", because nobody in Cogress will have read the fucking thing.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Don't worry, I'm not really dissagreeing with you that this plan might not rock, or that now may not be the time to get going on it. I've just been struck almost speechless by the mindless drivel I've seen coming out of the republican party on this issue, and I'd hate to see someone actually believing anything they say about the healthcare in other countries.

And supposedly, his plan should just provide competition for your plan, forcing them to lower costs for you in order to keep your business. In theory - I'm not saying it would necessarily work out that way.

[Freakzilla]

Why can't we make the insurance industry more competative without a total government takeover?

I've read that the most expensive part of a US made car is UAW health insurance, maybe this is just a scheme to provide them with cheap healthcare and make US-GM profitable.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I don't know why you can't make them more competitive, maybe because they don't feel the need to compete. We do that a lot in my industry, it's not really price fixing, but everyone just looks at everyone else and prices the same, no one tries to beat anyone (slim margin anyways, we'd all go out of business if we lower the prices any further).

Either way, I know very little about medicaid, or Obama's new plan, I can't say which is better. But healthcare is a basic human right, so I hope everyone in your country, especially children, has access to free good quality healthcare if they need it.

[Freakzilla]

I don't know why you can't make them more competitive, maybe because they don't feel the need to compete. We do that a lot in my industry, it's not really price fixing, but everyone just looks at everyone else and prices the same, no one tries to beat anyone (slim margin anyways, we'd all go out of business if we lower the prices any further).

Either way, I know very little about medicaid, or Obama's new plan, I can't say which is better. But healthcare is a basic human right, so I hope everyone in your country, especially children, has access to free good quality healthcare if they need it.

Healthcare being a basic human right is debateable, it's not garanteed by our Constitution.

My wife has looked seriously into Medicaid/Medicare. Especially when I was between jobs a few years ago. Even if I make too much money to qualify, If I pay the difference I can get it.

I believe the liberal numbers on the quantity of uninsured are way overinflated. They count the people that could have it but chose not to use it.

The vast majority of Americans can have it if they want it, right now.

What they need are JOBS.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I don't know why you can't make them more competitive, maybe because they don't feel the need to compete. We do that a lot in my industry, it's not really price fixing, but everyone just looks at everyone else and prices the same, no one tries to beat anyone (slim margin anyways, we'd all go out of business if we lower the prices any further).

Either way, I know very little about medicaid, or Obama's new plan, I can't say which is better. But healthcare is a basic human right, so I hope everyone in your country, especially children, has access to free good quality healthcare if they need it.

Healthcare being a basic human right is debateable, it's not garanteed by our Constitution.

It's only as debatable as all the other human rights, so yeah, if every single human right is debatable then so is this one. But just because one country's constitution doesn’t specify something as a right doesn’t mean anything – lots of countries don’t have women’s rights in their constitutions, do we sit back and say “oh, of course, it’s debatable whether those rights are real, must be so because this old piece of paper doesn’t mention it”? No, of course we don’t, that would be ridiculous. Children have the right to life, safety and health (health really just falls under safety), end of story IMO, anything else is immoral. Rich kids do not have more rights than poor kids. If some country’s old piece of paper disagrees, then that paper needs revision. So yeah, it's debatable, so is the right to liberty. A society that lets it's children die needlessly is a poor society.

If there is something in place already to safeguard this right, then good - maybe Obama's plan is unnecessary or even dangerous - but there had damned well better be something.

As I said before, my issue is not the republican stance on this issue - it is their childish and outright dishonest and dishonourable conduct in using lies to scaremonger people into agreeing with them. If they have a real case they should be able to make it using real evidence and real logic, not outright BS.

[Omphalos]

I agree that health care is not a basic fundamental right. But I think that its in our nation's best interest to do what it can to promote it, and it that includes paying for it, I'd probably agree to that.

[A Thing of Eternity]

Man, I get worked up sometimes, I need to work on it! Humans rights issues get under my skin though.

I'd have to say it is a right, I don't see how it's any different from any other basic human right, and I think it's actually just a sub-catagory under other already recognised rights. That said, rights come and go, are fought for and lost - so maybe what I should be saying is that healthcare SHOULD be a basic human right.

I personally think it fits neatly under the following:

Article 3
Everyone has the right to life

Article 25
Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Though my knowledge of the legalities is limited, those seem pretty cut and dry to me.

[Freakzilla]

I know there are exceptions, but if a child in the USA doesn't have healthcare it is their parent who are to blame, not the federal government.

Our system just needs to be tweeked, like I said. It works pretty well for over 300 million of us. I would love to see costs decrease but we don't need a government takeover to do that. They are NOT the people I want telling me how to make things less expensive.

To tell the truth, I think I pay a lot but considering I have three boys and go to the emergency room about once a month, I'm getting a good deal.

[A Thing of Eternity]

I know there are exceptions, but if a child in the USA doesn't have healthcare it is their parent who are to blame, not the federal government.
Our system just needs to be tweeked, like I said. It works pretty well for over 300 million of us. I would love to see costs decrease but we don't need a government takeover to do that. They are NOT the people I want telling me how to make things less expensive.
To tell the truth, I think I pay a lot but considering I have three boys and go to the emergency room about once a month, I'm getting a good deal.

It's the government's job to enforce human rights though, for example, if we lived in a country where it was legal to kill your child for disobeying, then yes, if a child was killed it is the parent's fault, but it is ALSO the fed's fault for not having laws and enforcement in place to protect the child. This issue isn't different.

Also, article 25 clearly states that everyone has the right to the standard of life to afford healthcare, cut and dry. If someone can't afford healthcare, they still have the right to it. If someone can afford it but refuses it, then they're idiots, but their children should be taken care of anyways (and probably taken away for that matter...)

And like I said - my original post had nothing at all to do with whether this plan is good or bad, or if the US needs it. It was all about the childish conduct of the republican party, and their blatent lies about our system. That was the only thing I was going on about.

[GamePlayer]

I still think Obama and his troupe are insane for even entertaining the idea of healthcare in the middle of this massive economic crisis. They can't afford jack right now, so how is this marvelous and expensive healthcare system going to materialize?

[A Thing of Eternity]

I still think Obama and his troupe are insane for even entertaining the idea of healthcare in the middle of this massive economic crisis. They can't afford jack right now, so how is this marvelous and expensive healthcare system going to materialize?

I'd like to know that too. But, governments waste ENORMOUS amounts of money on plain old beurocracy, so if he really did find enough places to slash red tape the gov could probably afford to buy every american a new solid gold house.

That said, I doubt he's found enough slashable red tape so far. I guess we'll just wait to see what happens, the US is already so far into debt that it'll take 300 years to pay off, so what's another 5 or 6 percent on that?!

[Freakzilla]

And like I said - my original post had nothing at all to do with whether this plan is good or bad, or if the US needs it. It was all about the childish conduct of the republican party, and their blatent lies about our system. That was the only thing I was going on about.

I try to listen to what both sides say, then find out what NEITHER is telling you. That's usually the heart of the matter.

[Freakzilla]

I still think Obama and his troupe are insane for even entertaining the idea of healthcare in the middle of this massive economic crisis. They can't afford jack right now, so how is this marvelous and expensive healthcare system going to materialize?

I'd like to know that too. But, governments waste ENORMOUS amounts of money on plain old beurocracy, so if he really did find enough places to slash red tape the gov could probably afford to buy every american a new solid gold house.

That said, I doubt he's found enough slashable red tape so far. I guess we'll just wait to see what happens, the US is already so far into debt that it'll take 300 years to pay off, so what's another 5 or 6 percent on that?!

95 Billion dollars in interest?

[A Thing of Eternity]

And like I said - my original post had nothing at all to do with whether this plan is good or bad, or if the US needs it. It was all about the childish conduct of the republican party, and their blatent lies about our system. That was the only thing I was going on about.

I try to listen to what both sides say, then find out what NEITHER is telling you. That's usually the heart of the matter.

That's not a bad system. I get so pissed off at the BS some of these parties toss around.

I still think Obama and his troupe are insane for even entertaining the idea of healthcare in the middle of this massive economic crisis. They can't afford jack right now, so how is this marvelous and expensive healthcare system going to materialize?

I'd like to know that too. But, governments waste ENORMOUS amounts of money on plain old beurocracy, so if he really did find enough places to slash red tape the gov could probably afford to buy every american a new solid gold house.

That said, I doubt he's found enough slashable red tape so far. I guess we'll just wait to see what happens, the US is already so far into debt that it'll take 300 years to pay off, so what's another 5 or 6 percent on that?!

95 Billion dollars in interest?

But that's only about 1% of your debt anyways - no big deal!