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Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 09:35
by inhuien
GMC, you're overthinking this one. The 2 of them are simply lazy, uncaring individuals who have repeatedly taken the path of least resistance, and they will continue to do so for as long as it's worth their while.

They were given care of a wonderful literary chalice and they used it as a toilet.

"We will never forgive and we will never forget".

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 09:47
by grandmastercrafter
inhuien wrote:GMC, you're overthinking this one. The 2 of them are simply lazy, uncaring individuals who have repeatedly taken the path of least resistance, and they will continue to do so for as long as it's worth their while.

They were given care of a wonderful literary chalice and they used it as a toilet.

"We will never forgive and we will never forget".

Yes, they have used Dune as their own personal commode, but if I really thought they were beyond hope (I don't think this of many people at all) I'd be less angry and more pitying... I guess it's just hard for me to think of anyone as beyond all hope - and I don't think these two are incapable of learning from their mistakes, given enough time and (internal/external) effort(s)... there are people like that - I'm not a total doofus on the subject - but KJA and BH and co. are the people messing up that literary chalice. Along with all our discussions, and the criticisms and mockery, I just think it's worthwhile to investigate all the avenues towards a change in the status quo atm.

And my (optimistic) point of view seems to have a camp of exactly 1. :lol: never bothered me before - doesn't bother me now - I'm sure my hope won't die unless something dramatic/drastic happens... (a few things could derail my optimism here, I'm sure, but they haven't happened yet, so...)

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 10:10
by inhuien
In his 1st post grandmastercrafter wrote:Greetings all - just want to say hi, and...

...that I've tried. I really have. I can't do it anymore. (softly weeping) After reading again and again the progressive dumbing-down of this exquisite creation, I seek refuge from the absolute ridiculousness that seems to spout nowadays (seemingly effortlessly) when I try to talk about Dune to the latest crop of readers. Standards have fallen. As well - as a family man I look on in horror at the tragedy that has befallen the legacy of a great mind at the hands of his son and some dude, seemingly for profit. That kind of behavior makes me queasy.

You're getting soft in your old age GMC. :)

Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rage at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Dylan Thomas.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 10:37
by lotek
inhuien wrote:GMC, you're overthinking this one. The 2 of them are simply lazy, uncaring individuals who have repeatedly taken the path of least resistance, and they will continue to do so for as long as it's worth their while.

They were given care of a wonderful literary chalice and they used it as a toilet.

"We will never forgive and we will never forget".


Bi-lal kaifa!

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 11:42
by merkin muffley
grandmastercrafter wrote:if I really thought they were beyond hope (I don't think this of many people at all) I'd be less angry and more pitying... I guess it's just hard for me to think of anyone as beyond all hope - and I don't think these two are incapable of learning from their mistakes, given enough time and (internal/external) effort(s)...


They just don't give a shit, dude. Dune is keeping them in microbrews.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 12:55
by grandmastercrafter
inhuien wrote:
In his 1st post grandmastercrafter wrote:Greetings all - just want to say hi, and...

...that I've tried. I really have. I can't do it anymore. (softly weeping) After reading again and again the progressive dumbing-down of this exquisite creation, I seek refuge from the absolute ridiculousness that seems to spout nowadays (seemingly effortlessly) when I try to talk about Dune to the latest crop of readers. Standards have fallen. As well - as a family man I look on in horror at the tragedy that has befallen the legacy of a great mind at the hands of his son and some dude, seemingly for profit. That kind of behavior makes me queasy.

You're getting soft in your old age GMC. :)

Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rage at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Dylan Thomas.

hehehe :lol: hardly - I still look on it in horror, and get extremely queasy whenever I read any McDune or related crap - that remains the same, but if you look at the rest of what I posted after that:
Because of this I had tried in years past to bring around a few younger individuals...

The whole purpose of that was to bring about change... it tired me out, because it was all offline... trying to schedule times to meet, going to people's places, bringing up Dune in conversations, quoting relevant parts to people who seemed likely to benefit, carrying around all 6 books (bookmarked and all) in my car and whipping em out at the drop of a hat, etc... Ever since joining Jacurutu I've become re-invigorated - mostly due to the passion most here have against these travesties. The fact that I'm not a lone wolf really helps - but never really stopped me before anyways, just minimized the amount of <info I could harness to the task><weapons I could carry to the battle><drums I could bring to the circle><rockets I could load in my launcher>.

However - old age has not changed my desire to be a small part of the effort to effect change in this beastly situation... Following the lead of other OH'ers, I post frequently on Amazon, discuss things with gaming communities like the Arsclan, still do face-to-face readings at the high school and after work, am preparing a number of reviews to post online, have begun to write more Dune fan-fiction and another SF project of my own, etc... I teach ESL to a few classes of adult learners and recommend that they improve their English by delving into, and discussing in English, Dune... My productive output is on the rise again, and I suppose my natural optimism with respect to the consumers extends to the authors as well - if they ever truly learn the depths to which they've fallen, I believe that (at least with BH, and hopefully with KJA) they could be turned.

Not likely, I admit, but it seems to me that as they grow, and hopefully mature in their writing (and NO I have NOT seen any evidence that this is happening at this time), it should be inevitable - as long as the pressure to improve and/or correct their stance towards Frank Herbert's legacy, McDune and canon, restricted communications at the official site, the promotion of unethical reviews at official bookseller sites, and all the rest, continues unabated...

I believe that it will become more and more obvious, to them, as they get older, that their legacy will be one of despoiling Dune. That should be apparent already, but they've shown a blatant disregard RE improvement to date - it will probably be a few more decades before they change their attitudes, if ever. I freely admit it may be a lost cause from the get-go - nevertheless, it's a noble endeavor, imho...

If they were brain-damaged and incapable of learning, I'd just have to refocus my 'activism' on simply the consumers... I'm starting there, but plan to go further, if RL permits ;) (and most importantly, my wife! :shhh: )

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 13:00
by grandmastercrafter
merkin muffley wrote:
grandmastercrafter wrote:if I really thought they were beyond hope (I don't think this of many people at all) I'd be less angry and more pitying... I guess it's just hard for me to think of anyone as beyond all hope - and I don't think these two are incapable of learning from their mistakes, given enough time and (internal/external) effort(s)...


They just don't give a shit, dude. Dune is keeping them in microbrews.

:lol: :shock: :crying-yellow:

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 13:20
by TheDukester
inhuien wrote:GMC, you're overthinking this one. The 2 of them are simply lazy, uncaring individuals who have repeatedly taken the path of least resistance, and they will continue to do so for as long as it's worth their while.

:text-+1:

This isn't a complicated issue.

One of them has the correct last name; the other was a notorious Rent-A-Hack™ long before he met Bobo. Together, they decided they'd make a few bucks by publishing exactly one book per year.

Game, set, match. That's all there is to it. There's no deeper meanings to be found.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 14:07
by grandmastercrafter
TheDukester wrote:
inhuien wrote:GMC, you're overthinking this one. The 2 of them are simply lazy, uncaring individuals who have repeatedly taken the path of least resistance, and they will continue to do so for as long as it's worth their while.

:text-+1:

This isn't a complicated issue.

One of them has the correct last name; the other was a notorious Rent-A-Hack™ long before he met Bobo. Together, they decided they'd make a few bucks by publishing exactly one book per year.

Game, set, match. That's all there is to it. There's no deeper meanings to be found.

Yea - that sounds almost right. It's not about deeper meaning though. Its about the realization that they messed up. That can happen at any time, and with any person. Induce regret, remorse, etc... and that's the beginning... make em feel bad for what they've done, cause they don't see it... or greed is masking their understanding... either way, they're things that can be changed.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 16 Sep 2010 15:25
by inhuien
Very well, your sietch name shall be Damascus.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 17 Sep 2010 08:21
by grandmastercrafter
inhuien wrote:Very well, your sietch name shall be Damascus.

:?: :think: me? What do you mean?

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 17 Sep 2010 08:35
by inhuien
As in "Road to.....", as you seek to bring about a change of thought or outlook in certain individuals.

Apologies if that was a bit left field, it seemed obvious to me. But then sometimes I know what I'm on about.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 17 Sep 2010 08:47
by lotek
funny bit of info, I googled "road to damascus" to try to get the full picture...

And the first link goes:
Image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_Paul

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 17 Sep 2010 09:33
by grandmastercrafter
inhuien wrote:As in "Road to.....", as you seek to bring about a change of thought or outlook in certain individuals.

Apologies if that was a bit left field, it seemed obvious to me. But then sometimes I know what I'm on about.

hehehe - that's pretty good! Yeah - got it now, but totally took me off-balance for a sec. :clap:
Maybe I can flash lights into KJA's eyes for long enough for him to change his mind on everything? It might take a long time, and his mind may change in other ways too, so it may not be helpful... :twisted:

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 17 Sep 2010 09:51
by lotek
grandmastercrafter wrote:
inhuien wrote:As in "Road to.....", as you seek to bring about a change of thought or outlook in certain individuals.

Apologies if that was a bit left field, it seemed obvious to me. But then sometimes I know what I'm on about.

hehehe - that's pretty good! Yeah - got it now, but totally took me off-balance for a sec. :clap:
Maybe I can flash lights into KJA's eyes for long enough for him to change his mind on everything? It might take a long time, and his mind may change in other ways too, so it may not be helpful... :twisted:


Image

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 17 Sep 2010 10:14
by grandmastercrafter
yea... I need me one of those.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 18 Aug 2014 05:48
by Theporphyrian
Bully for you!!! but i would like to add that i actually enjoyed the follow ups. of course i had to separate from the greatness that is the originals. I look at it like this....separate the good from the not so good and in the end, you still have the dune "flavor". and for one like myself, i will always crave that universe. what i like to call the "Duniverse". the butlerian novels gave us a taste of how it all started. How or more acurately why the Orange Catholic Bible was Written. Not to mention that i absolutely fell in love with the "evil pinnochio" that was Erasmus. And the House books have become some of my favorites. I completely agree that the originals are the best but at the risk of repeating myself i have to say that i will always devour anything coming from the Duniverse.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 18 Aug 2014 11:46
by Naïve mind
Theporphyrian wrote:at the risk of repeating myself i have to say that i will always devour anything coming from the Duniverse.


Which is a good thing; the follow-ups are written specifically for you, and other readers like you.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 18 Aug 2014 14:38
by Ampoliros
I have to disagree, I think John Wayne Gacy was the worst creation from the new books mostly because they will not let him die and are doing everything they can to shoehorn him into every crevasse of the series they can all while completely ignoring one of the most important aspects of the originals: consequence. Giving them far too much credit, you could argue that they were trying to create an antithesis to Paul, an anti-hero. But they NEVER deal with the consequences.

For Paul, there are books plural about trouble his regime causes in the universe. His son affects this on a scale that he is known as the Tyrant for thousands of years after he was gone.

For Gacy & co. the scale of their 'dominance' is similar...but the consequences of those actions are ludicrously unreported in their own books. Its as if they were relying on the wall of Frank's description of the consequences of the Butlerian Jihad to be the foundation of THEIR argument.

Its like if the Jews discovered Hitler was still alive in Argentina and decided to become buddy buddy with him when he hasn't changed a bit and they consciously ignore who he is and what he stands for, even when he hints about still wanting to do it and tries to get them to help him do it at every turn.

Out of respect for Desiderius Erasmus, I refuse to call that character by that name. John Wayne Gacy is much more appropriate.

A close runner up is Marie Fenring, who while only appearing in one book certainly is biting at the heels of Gacy.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 20 Aug 2014 13:44
by SandRider
Heresy. Throw him to the Worms.

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 20 Aug 2014 16:21
by Omphalos
Geez. How'd I miss this one?

Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

Posted: 21 Aug 2014 10:12
by Freakzilla
Maybe he doesn't realize where he is? :P