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    Who We Are and What We Stand For

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    Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Freakzilla » 30 Apr 2010 00:17

    That's how I wrote the novel, wanting you to participate with the best of your own imagination. I did not aim for the lowest common denominator and 'write down" to anyone. You and I have a compact and my responsibility is to entertain you as richly as possible, always giving you as much extra as I can. I assume you are intelligent and will enlist your own imagination. You'll see that when you read the Dune excerpt and the other stories in this collection.
    ~Frank Herbert, Intro to Eye

    Looking back on it, I realize I did the right thing instinctively. You don't
    write for success. That takes part of your attention away from the writing. If
    you're really doing it, that's all you're doing: writing.
    There's an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a
    bookstore and sets down hard earned money (energy) for your book, you owe that
    person some entertainment and as much more as you can give.
    That was really my intention all along.

    ~Frank Herbert, Intro to Heretics of Dune

    Who We Are

    First, a little about me. I first read Dune at age thirteen in 1984, just before the David Lynch movie hit the big screen, and was immediately hooked. I caught up with the series soon afterwards and read Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune as they were published. Then I read everything else FH wrote that I could find. I even read the entire Dune Encyclopedia complied by Dr. Willis McNelly. I was devastated when I learned of my new favorite author's death. Since then I've read the series roughly once a year,give or take. Years later came the internet and discussion forums. I lurked at Dreamers of Dune for about a year, afraid to expose my ignorance, but after building up the courage to chance participating in the discussion I found that I was gaining credibility in knowledge of the Dune series and became an active member. DoD eventually died and since then I've been a fixture in whatever Dune forum(s) was the most active, sometimes in multiple forums. Sometimes as a member, sometimes as moderator or administrator. Eventually in 1999 I was thrilled to read news that Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson were planning to continue the series. I eagerly bought and read the new Dune books and was sorely disappointed to say the least. I could have tolerated the abysmal writing if the authors had bothered to pretend they understood Frank Herbert's books and remained consistent with his themes and details. I wouldn't be surprised if I found out the new authors haven't even read the originals. When the Herbert estate opened a Dune Novels bulletin board in 2006, I immediately joined and voiced my disdain, for which I was immediately banned. I emailed the administrator, Frank Herbert's grandson Byron Merritt, and upon apologizing for personally insulting the authors and promising to refrain from doing it again was allowed to rejoin the forum. There I proceeded to make 5,691 posts before eventually being banned again and am still, years after being banned, the leading poster there. I wasn't the only one banned for voicing their negative opinions of the new books, not by far. Most of the knowledgeable people I'd come to know in the Dune fan community felt the same way I did and the Dunenovels standard operating procedure for dealing with negative comments is to ban the member. Eventually this lead to only the most mindless discussion there and I saw an opportunity for a new Dune fan forum where members would not be censored. So I started Jacurutu, named after the Cast Out in Children of Dune. This leads to...

    What We Stand For

    First of all, this is not an anti-KJA/BH forum. This is a FH's Dune fan forum. However, current events in the world of Dune have drawn fire towards the new authors for what many fans consider raping and milking FH's legacy for profit, and that is the topic du jour. If I had my way, we'd only be discussing FH's works but one of the ideas this forum was founded on was to let the discussion take it's own course without censorship. So that is the way it goes. Contrary to what some might say, we are not against the continuation of the Dune series in any medium. We are against BADLY continuing Dune in any medium. The Herberts have hired a notorious hack to bring them a steady paycheck with a total lack of respect for the deep and serious ideas and themes present in FH's legacy and have turned it into a McDune franchise. It's a shame that none of the many qualified, GOOD authors have not had a chance to do FH's legacy justice. At least, if they aren't going to give a real author a shot, they should stop defiling Dune with the pulp space opera crap they've been churning out.

    Well, that's the gist of it.

    I exist only to serve,

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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Freakzilla » 30 Apr 2010 00:28

    Y'all please feel free to post anything you think I may have left out, should add or to even comment on my grammar. :oops:
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby SimonH » 30 Apr 2010 01:03

    Good stuff. I'd like to see this on the front page of the site, not just as a post in the forum
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Freakzilla » 30 Apr 2010 01:07

    SimonH wrote:Good stuff. I'd like to see this on the front page of the site, not just as a post in the forum


    It's an announcement, I don't know how I could make it more up front.
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby SandChigger » 30 Apr 2010 01:18

    :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Anudar » 30 Apr 2010 03:45

    This should be called The talifan's manifesto and should be put to the knowledge of every original Dune- and (especially) prequels-reader...

    *comes back to silent-lurker-mode...*
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby SandChigger » 30 Apr 2010 04:15

    Except that we do not accept the designation "Talifan". ;)
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Anudar » 30 Apr 2010 04:46

    Ooops... I'm gonna mortify myself for that one. Sorry for the noise.
    What term do I have to use instead of this one ?
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby SandChigger » 30 Apr 2010 05:09

    Oh, don't do that! :D (You're WAY too serious sometimes! ;) )

    I should have phrased that, "I don't accept that designation."

    There may be others here who choose to use it, to twist it around on KJA and his minions and bear it with pride. :)
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby lotek » 30 Apr 2010 05:28

    Orthodox Herbertarians
    The Cast Out
    the Iduali

    ow and Freak?
    that was a very moving text indeed(and I am not being sarcastic)

    Who We Are

    We are a bunch of rag tag internet wanderers, churned from the very place where we belonged the most and that has long lost both way and followers.
    We have found a new sietch where to vent our frustration at seeing how money and greed have again overcome the beauty and complexity of a Great Story, one fitting to call itself a heir to Greek drama.

    I am Lotek, thanks to my Dad I was introduced to science-fiction and Fantasy from a very early age, going first for those heroes that knew not failure before being a young adult, so by the time I encountered Dune and Frank Herbert I was ready to accept what the Hack has not understood(and probably never will):
    heroes are human, they make mistakes and they sometimes live to regret them!
    "Real boats rock!"

    Funny enough I found Jacurutu through a youtube video
    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZdilt3kfjM&feature=related[/youtube]
    And I have called it home ever since!

    Of course some idiots use our slandering of the hack to silence the voice of discontent, but they only do it because he makes them feel like they can understand everything by giving them no intellectual challenges...
    That to me/us is heresy in the real sense of the word
    Heresy is a controversial or novel change to a system of beliefs, especially a religion, that conflicts with established dogma


    What we stand for

    This I don't know for sure, in my most megalomaniac moments i believe we are the only true remnant of reason in the Duniverse, the guardians of the true faith ;)
    But most of the time I think we stand for ourselves as individuals, with the common goal and crazy hope of seeing Dune restored to its past glory(and the defilers forgotten in time and history)
    Last edited by lotek on 13 Sep 2013 06:13, edited 1 time in total.
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Eyes High » 30 Apr 2010 10:59

    A place for those who love the originals to express their concerns for the prevailing treatment of the literary legacy without concern of banishment for expressing those concerns and for new comers to interact with knowledge persons about the intricacies of the universe that is Dune.

    And to also have a chance to joke around about everyday life. :mrgreen:
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby TheDukester » 30 Apr 2010 12:22

    Well done, FZ.

    I would add only that much of the KJA/Bobo discussion here is simply the natural result of the way things stand in the Dune universe. Or, to turn it around and start from the beginning: Frank Herbert is dead, and has been so for many years. There is no news available regarding FH. I'm sure that if there was, we'd all do our best to break the internets in discussing it.

    Going further, there's not even very much audio or video of FH available, the two coins of the realm in our digital age. So we're left with trying to get as close as we can to FH and the universe he created, which leads us directly into the gaping maw of the Hebert Leeches and their hired hack. And, once we discover how unspeakably clueless and greedy they are, many of us tend to react negatively. And it certainly doesn't help that one of the two main perpetrators is an egomaniacal gadfly who almost literally cannot ever just shut up about how wonderful he is and how much he's done for the Dune universe. That's the sort of thing that tends to enrage.

    I always feel a tinge of guilt whenever I post an anti-Anderjacket thought; I know I should probably be talking about FH and the six canon books instead. I just wish I had something to add about FH, or that something new would be discovered. As it is, I feel like the only thing I can do is to defend the Dune universe as best I can against a greedy family, a zombie-esque son with disturbing daddy issues, and a hired mercenary who should stick to writing his YA Star Wars crap.
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Freakzilla » 30 Apr 2010 12:39

    TheDukester wrote:I always feel a tinge of guilt whenever I post an anti-Anderjacket thought; I know I should probably be talking about FH and the six canon books instead.


    I really didn't intend to make anyone feel guilty, I know it's Dune current events, I just hate the whole situation.
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Anudar » 30 Apr 2010 13:09

    SandChigger wrote:Oh, don't do that! :D (You're WAY too serious sometimes! ;) )


    Well, always remember english isn't my first language :). I probably phrase things a strange way.

    The problem is, the Dune-related activity tends to be, these days, more and more KJA-related. All of us [strike]talifans[/strike] OHs, we regret it. You can be sure that on the french-speaking Dune board "De Dune à Rakis", we share many of your views. Except that, being for some of us here unable to read or even speak english, we don't have the same access than you to the McDune-activity. We don't see this as close as you see it. I intend to read WoD but since I don't want to pay too much for this (I have to be clear : I have better things to buy), I'm waiting the british paperback edition.

    As I enjoy to think, sometimes, the Dune-related activity - the real one, I mean - comes from everyone of us. When we use our boards, when we try and analyse further our dear Dune, we're creating activity. And this one has probably more legitimity than the McDune one.
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby trang » 30 Apr 2010 13:58

    Heart felt post about yourself, the forum, and what is stands for. I would use different phraesology though, submitted humbly, as I am no master of langauge.

    Instead of "what we stand for" "The forum's Focus is"

    "What we stand for" signify's a movement of some sorts... which under the hood... it is understood.. Orthodox Herbertarians. I am a dedicated OH'er and will remain so for as long as I have air in my lungs, but not all adopt that designation, nor should they have to.

    "The Forums focus is the continued discussion and discovery of the Dune Chronicles written by Frank Herbert. The exchange of ideas is in all forms (art, news, motion picture, internet etc.) Attemtps at extending Dune beyond the original six books has been undertaken and those works have been published. A prevailing viewpoint of disdain is expressed by a majority, both for the books and their creators, but that should not discourage anyones opinions. Their are also off topic discussions such as Frank Herberts other works, and a favorite area of many, a little place named Ghafla "the distraction" which offers a variety of topics from members.

    The continuation of the Dune Chronicles, in any format, honoring the legacy and its place in science or speculitive fiction is a wish of many members. So if this seems interesting, sign up and join in the discussion, love to have ya!"

    The backgrounds of the sysop's is cool too:) and my aim is to not give any free advertising or acknowledgement to the hacks. There is plenty of that within
    "Long Live the Fighters", "Dragon.....the other white meat."

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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby merkin muffley » 30 Apr 2010 16:38

    "...current events in the world of Dune have drawn fire towards the new authors for what many fans consider raping and milking FH's legacy for profit, and that is the topic du jour. If I had my way, we'd only be discussing FH's works but one of the ideas this forum was founded on was to let the discussion take it's own course without censorship. So that is the way it goes. Contrary to what some might say, we are not against the continuation of the Dune series in any medium. We are against BADLY continuing Dune in any medium. The Herberts have hired a notorious hack to bring them a steady paycheck with a total lack of respect for the deep and serious ideas and themes present in FH's legacy and have turned it into a McDune franchise. It's a shame that none of the many qualified, GOOD authors have not had a chance to do FH's legacy justice. At least, if they aren't going to give a real author a shot, they should stop defiling Dune with the pulp space opera crap they've been churning out."

    I agree, and I think it was a very good idea to create this thread. It would be nice if we didn't have to talk about HLP, but they're still writing them books.
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby lotek » 30 Apr 2010 16:42

    yeah I've thought many times about this, thinking why waste time and thought slandering idiots...
    and then I stumble upon one of many of their garbles, and I feel the anger and frustration again...
    which can only be quenched by mockery, the only tool we have left to call back the mockery they have tried to make of Dune
    and I hate obnoxious pricks full of themselves(and anyone who encourages them in that way)


    EDIT
    but I will try to talk more of Dune and less of Them
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Freakzilla » 30 Apr 2010 16:45

    lotek wrote:...but I will try to talk more of Dune and less of Them


    Again, not my intention at all. Just my preference. Y'all talk about what you want to.
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Nekhrun » 30 Apr 2010 16:50

    I do think that it's worth pointing out contradictions and inconsistencies with FH's books. I know that many of us tend to take it personally because they won't admit to any of them. I also think that if they are not going to address them that it is worth speculating on why.

    I think this thread is a good idea to (yet again) illustrate that it is not the continuation of Dune to which we object but with the terrible writing and poor way FH's legacy is handled.

    If they want to continue Dune, that's great. I'd like to see more books, video games, television, movies, etc. etc.

    But for the love of Frank, get some talent involved.
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby lotek » 30 Apr 2010 16:55

    Freakzilla wrote:
    lotek wrote:...but I will try to talk more of Dune and less of Them


    Again, not my intention at all. Just my preference. Y'all talk about what you want to.


    yeah I understand that and my answer was not made out of some guilt(more g-caster jokes?)but more out of respect for Frank's memory and the fact that there is so much to talk about in his books(as opposed to the other two)

    and i did not say I would stop the mockery, just try to reduce its importance in proportion ;)

    Nekhrun wrote:I do think that it's worth pointing out contradictions and inconsistencies with FH's books. I know that many of us tend to take it personally because they won't admit to any of them. I also think that if they are not going to address them that it is worth speculating on why.


    absolutely right :clap:
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Freakzilla » 30 Apr 2010 17:00

    Nekhrun wrote:...But for the love of Frank, get some talent involved.


    :pray:
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Ampoliros » 30 Apr 2010 17:16

    I don't think any of us truly enjoys deconstructing every moronic thing that KJA does. Well, maybe Chig, but I'm quite sure he'd have plenty of things to entertain himself with if KJA wasn't constantly making an asshat of himself. I myself think he'd be ten times as good a writer if he'd just slow the eff down in his pace and actually edit a book without Iron Man on a plasma screen in the same room*. He just makes mocking him so easy!

    That and

    1) He started it, by refusing to even deal with constructive criticism and labeling the initial complaint bringers as "Talifans" comparing us to terrorists. He stoked the embers of disgust and confusion into flames of anger and retribution. Wrong move Kev. He and the HLP built the culture of banning and deletions that have built this community and robbed it of its primary function: Love of Frank Herbert's work.
    2) Its easy
    3) Its fun
    4) He is damaging something that was profound in every single person on this board's life: Dune. Damaging is a diplomatic word. Corpse raping is much more apt but not acceptable for polite conversation.



    *If this sounds apologetic I apologize. KJA writing at 10x his normal skill doesn't mean his ideas aren't shit to begin with. FUCK YOU MARIE FENRING!!
    ** I also apologize for making pretty much my whole post about KJA. He is the topic du jour and I have a dream that we will all live to see a time when the sons of Dune and the sons of nuDune can sit down at the table of fellowship and realize that there are only 6 books. On that Day we will be free of KJA, thank Frank Almighty, we'll be free of KJA
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby SandChigger » 30 Apr 2010 20:57

    Ampoliros wrote:I don't think any of us truly enjoys deconstructing every moronic thing that KJA does. Well, maybe Chig

    :P

    Don't worry, I've got plenty of irons in the fire all the time. :D

    Corpse raping is much more apt but not acceptable for polite conversation.

    Polite conversation is highly overrated. ;)

    ** I also apologize for making pretty much my whole post about KJA. He is the topic du jour and I have a dream that we will all live to see a time when the sons of Dune and the sons of nuDune can sit down at the table of fellowship and realize that there are only 6 books. On that Day we will be free of KJA, thank Frank Almighty, we'll be free of KJA

    Reverend Ampo Liros King? :lol:

    Careful, though: this is the kind of thing that gets read by morons and leads their small minds to conclude there's a quasi-religious aspect to our assembly, like we're some kind of Frank Herbert cult. :roll:
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Ampoliros » 30 Apr 2010 23:19

    Its not so much sacred or religious as it is about celebrating the excellence that we are capable of and avoiding the pitfalls of mediocrity.
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    Re: Who We Are and What We Stand For

    Postby Aquila ka-Hecate » 01 May 2010 11:24

    Ampoliros wrote:Its not so much sacred or religious as it is about celebrating the excellence that we are capable of and avoiding the pitfalls of mediocrity.


    Yeah, that.

    This grade-school level of literature is really pissing me off - it's everywhere. Dumbing down to the lowest level, instead of lifting to the higher.
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