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    Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ

    Postby inhuien » 03 Feb 2009 04:31

    Ya think the HLP have had him "Got at"?
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    Postby Bijaz » 03 Feb 2009 06:23

    inhuien wrote:Ya think the HLP have had him "Got at"?


    Brian pretending to be invisible and jumping out from behind the stacks.

    Booh!
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    Postby SandChigger » 03 Feb 2009 07:03

    Twelve hours later.... :roll:

    (Is this payback for the PMs on T(A)U? ;) )
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

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    Postby Mr. Teg » 03 Feb 2009 08:19

    SandChigger wrote:Twelve hours later.... :roll:

    (Is this payback for the PMs on T(A)U? ;) )


    What PM's :wink:
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    Postby Nekhrun » 03 Feb 2009 09:12

    Mr. Teg wrote:
    SandChigger wrote:Twelve hours later.... :roll:

    (Is this payback for the PMs on T(A)U? ;) )


    What PM's :wink:

    Check your inbox.
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    Postby SandRider » 03 Feb 2009 13:37

    Well boys, I think it's obvious -

    We should have known Keith's Stormtroopers had the archive under watch.
    I'm assuming Omph posted those message from an Iphone - he was most
    likely detained on his way out. Strip searched. Hauled away.

    But just as every Great Movement must have its Scapegoat, so must it have its Martyr.


    I'll saddle up the 7th Texas for a rescue mission to the Death Star, but I fear it's too late ...
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    Postby inhuien » 03 Feb 2009 14:06

    It's never to late for the 7th, don't spare the horses.
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    Postby chanilover » 03 Feb 2009 15:27

    This sounds interesting. I want to see Sandrider on top of his horse going to rescue Omphalos from the clutches of Hyppo's hairy thighs.
    "You and your buddies and that b*tch Mandy are nothing but a gang of lying, socially maladjusted losers." - St Hypatia of Arrakeen.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 03 Feb 2009 15:33

    Gross! :lol: I got bad visuals from that.
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    Postby chanilover » 03 Feb 2009 15:34

    Freakzilla wrote:Gross! :lol: I got bad visuals from that.


    :lol: My pleasure. Or Ompahlos's, perhaps.
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    Postby Mr. Teg » 03 Feb 2009 19:29

    chanilover wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:Gross! :lol: I got bad visuals from that.


    :lol: My pleasure. Or Ompahlos's, perhaps.


    The scots do prefer women with a hairy arse. :wink:
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    Postby Freakzilla » 03 Feb 2009 20:07

    GOD! How long is he going to leave us here, shivering with antici...





































    ...pation?
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    Postby Omphalos » 03 Feb 2009 20:20

    Just passed an internet cafe and I thought I'd check in. The urgent news that I have is not so urgent. I was listening to the reference librarian's conversation. One was saying to the other that the "family wants the original manuscripts back," and was telling the others about the legal battele that "Fullerton had just finished with the family." I assumed that they meant the Herbert family, but it was actually with the Dick family, as they are also the repository for PKD's papers.

    Last night when I could not find a good remote signal I went ahead and drafted a bit about what I found in the archives. Ill post it when I get back into my office on Wednesday.

    We have a lot of planning to do if we are going to make good use of that archive.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 03 Feb 2009 20:28

    Omphalos wrote:We have a lot of planning to do if we are going to make good use of that archive.


    I'll help.
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    Postby SandRider » 03 Feb 2009 21:25

    OH THANK G-D YOU'RE ALIVE !!

    How did you escape ? The old urine-in-the-face thing ?
    Did they hurt you, Omph ? You can tell us ....

    Did they ... do things to you ?








    (he's not to be trusted. no telling what they've done to him -
    he may be a clone, or a cylon - wait til he's alseep and take
    him to brig ....)
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    Postby SandChigger » 03 Feb 2009 21:32

    OMPHALOS IS THE FINAL CYLON!!!! :D

    Um...

    Which means ... he's also ... the Galactica? :shock:

    :!: :?: :!:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby Tleszer » 03 Feb 2009 23:03

    All hail Omphlactica?
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    Postby SandChigger » 04 Feb 2009 00:39

    You made everything sound ... dirty. :shock:

    ...

    Don't stop! :P
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby Omphalos » 04 Feb 2009 12:12

    OK all, I went to the Frank Herbert archive on Monday, February 2. I only had three hours in the archive, but I will be making more trips for certain, as my case load in L.A. (and available vacation time) allow. It probably will be a few months before I can squeeze in another trip to CSU Fullerton. But I will do it eventually. There is just too much there to stay away.

    By far I think the most valueable resource there are the working copies that they have of the six Dune books. I got a chance to look through one typewritten and hand edited version of Dune (I think the first). There was a LOT taken out. The archive has what appear to be the original FH write of Dune, the Campbell edits, the Lanier edits (maybe two of each), some foreign edits, the galley proof of the Chilton edition, and a galley for one other production of Dune too. I wish that I had time to go through them carefully, but I just didn't. All of them were double spaced, single sided flimsy (for carbon copying), and all of them had red pen marks in FH's hand (I am now an expert at identifying his handwriting). I only had time to go through one section; my favorite, where Paul and Jessica are speaking in the stilltent after escaping from Arrakeen, and I did not see any significant changes. However, I did see a bunch on hunter-seekers that was edited out from book I. I just did not have time to copy them.

    I did not look at other Dune books either, but I am told that there are LOTS more hand-corrected editions in the archive. I think a person could reasonably expect to spend weeks in that archive, if they wanted to inspect everything.

    Here is a list of what I have. I'll get to scanning it this weekend and put it up as I finish. Its just under an inch of paper, so it should not take too long. One other thing to keep in mind, I think that a few of these things were referenced in the Brian Herbert book, and one of the O'Reilley books. I got them here because I started with correspondence, and thought everyone would be interested in the unedited copies of these important letters. Of course, there are HUNDREDS more there that I did not have a chance to look at. Dates follow the American standard of mm/dd/yy

    10/15/68 letter from Campbell to Blassingame about DM. 2pp.
    08/12/68 letter from Campbell to Herbert about DM. 4pp.
    06/29/68 letter from Ulf Westblom, editor of a Swedish Fanzine called Mentat, and FH's response. 3pp
    08/09/67 fan letter from D.K. Das, sent through Campbell, questioning FH on his timeline. I want to find a reply to this. 2pp.
    04/05/63 letter from Blasingame to Herbert about Dune. Somewhat critical. 1p.
    06/08/63 letter from FH to Campbell about elements of Dune. 5pp.
    06/13/63 letter from Campbell. Its in a chain of letters about FH's description of time.
    07/09/63 letter from Herbert to Campbell about time. 1p.
    02/27/78 interview of FH by Tim O'Reilley. 49pp.
    Haiku by FH, in response to a request from Damon Knight for same, letter unattached. 1p.
    Undated, unsigned note, possibly from FH, found in the Dune rewrite folders.
    03/30/77 essay by FH on why he wrote Dune, hand corrected, 4pp.
    Undated recount by Lurton Blassingame of rejections of Dune by major publishers, starting with Doubleday and ending with its acceptance by Lanier. 2pp.
    01/13/65 (frantic sounding) letter from Lanier discussing the economics of publishing Dune, hinting at the possiblility of cuts other than serial repetition, and asking outright for additions to the serial text.1p.
    Undated, hand corrected eulogy of Beverly Herbert, by FH. 2pp
    Photocopy of an undated newspaper article about Herbert setting out for Mexico with a newly purchased vintage hearse. Bev and FH appear in the photo. Not sure where it was published. 1p.
    Carcoal caricature of FH, side view, undated and unsigned. I figure it will make an excellent avatar. 1p.
    09/01/72 interview of FH by Daniel Guy in Canada for the upcoming LA Worldcon. Its a photograph of a severely decayed mimeograpy, so I might have to try to retype it. 7pp.

    I also made some notes while I was there of things that I noticed or put together in my head, and I want to write them down before I forget.

    FH had a habit of cutting out faces from magazine ads, and writing up character sketches from them. I found dozens and dozens of them all over the archives, for different stories.

    Bev Herbert write a story for a store in Port Townsend called The White House. The story was titled "Where did Mrs. Clause Go?" and it was quite charming.

    Herbert frequently made references in letters I found to reel-to-reel tapes of speeches he gave. None of them were in the archives, but perhaps it would be worth it to go through the correspondence, note them all and then follow up with the addressees or with current members of the clubs where he gave them.

    Herbert's working title for Dune Messiah was "Fool Saint," and the working title for CD was "Alia," or possibly "Alia of Dune."

    I have seen references to FH's detective fiction, which he was said to have written in the 50's before he started building up his name in SF. I found some letters back and forth from Blassingame and Herbert from December '57 and January '58 referring to several stories, without mention of the names, save one. That title was "Story Ship." I have never heard of it.

    There is a new dissertation in the archive about the similarities between Arthur and Paul. The author was British, but he had written McNelly after reading MeNelly's comments in DE about the same, and McNelly became a second reader for his dissertation. It was about 45 pp long, and I did not want to stop going through the letters to copy it, but I want it one day.

    I overheard the librarians talking about a "Mr. Quinlan," who apparently is writing his dissertation on Dune. I left one of my cards for him. Hopefully he will call so we can get him on the board some day.

    OK guys and gals, that is it for day one in the archives. Anyone else live near OC? I could use some help.
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    Postby SandRider » 04 Feb 2009 12:42

    Omph wrote:(I am now an expert at identifying his handwriting)


    so do you think the "Dune 7" label on the floppies is in his hand ?
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    Postby Omphalos » 04 Feb 2009 13:33

    SandRider wrote:
    Omph wrote:(I am now an expert at identifying his handwriting)


    so do you think the "Dune 7" label on the floppies is in his hand ?


    I recall thinking before that they were, but maybe I should take another look. Are they posted here?
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    Postby Omphalos » 04 Feb 2009 13:41

    i looked on the ISFBD today and was unable to find any story called "Story Ship," but the next time I go I think it would be worth my while to see if there are any more references to FH's detective story career. Its always been a big mystery what his pseudonym was in the early 50's. From a scholasitc perspective, it would an incredible find to locate and/or identify those early FH stories.

    I think Blassingame donated his papers upon his death in '88 to the University of Oregon. maybe its time for another trip in the other direction?
    Last edited by Omphalos on 04 Feb 2009 13:46, edited 1 time in total.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 04 Feb 2009 13:45

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    Postby Omphalos » 04 Feb 2009 13:53

    Freakzilla wrote:Here


    The second one looks very much like FH's hand. The first is close, but in my opinion it is not as clear as the second. Being as Im not too paranoid, I would probably say that both are his though.

    HOLY SCHNIKES! I just found Blassingame's archive, and there are nine folders of letters related to FH! I gotta get to Oregon!

    Im really starting to dig on this literary research stuff.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 04 Feb 2009 14:01

    Omphalos wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:Here


    The second one looks very much like FH's hand. The first is close, but in my opinion it is not as clear as the second. Being as Im not too paranoid, I would probably say that both are his though.


    That's good news, now if we could only see what's on them.

    HOLY SCHNIKES! I just found Blassingame's archive, and there are nine folders of letters related to FH! I gotta get to Oregon!

    Im really starting to dig on this literary research stuff.


    Who is he again? :?
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