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    Fullerton Archive Searches

    Postby Omphalos » 24 Jan 2009 02:37

    OK all. I have been talking about it for years now, but either the 28th of this month or the 3rd of February I am going to be taking time from my schedule in Los Angeles to go to the Fullerton archives and do some research. No firm promises, because the kinds of cases I have change daily, but I have these potential dates on the calendar now. The archive is only open for four to five hours per day, so I am going to have to make the best of my time. This will not be the only trip that I make, but I would like to concentrate on particular boxes that are there. Here is a list of everything that is in the archive:

    http://library.fullerton.edu/content/Ad ... chives.doc

    Allow the doc to download and open it in Word.

    I am going to concentrate my efforts on the letters boxes, and I am planning on looking for anything on the Butlerian Jihad. If I have time, I plan on going through the news paper archives to look for articles of interest to us. If anyone wants me to look for anything in particular, please add a reply here so we can collectively prioritize things. I have managed to get a bunch of LA cases assigned to me, and I will get more, so that I can take vacation days when in LA to look for things through the archives, so please think long term here, as well as short term.
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    Re: Fullerton Archive Searches

    Postby Lundse » 24 Jan 2009 08:31

    These all look mighty interesting:

      One Hundred Years From Today: 2068 A.D., p. 12-14, 16-17

      Dune, memo pad, 60 sheets, 3” X 5”
      Shelved in Dune miscellaneous items

      Dune, terms and definitions cards, 15 card (Shelved in Dune miscellaneous items)

      Shifting San Dunes



    The first one might give us a clue about Frank's thoughts on computers, and hence the Jihad... I admit I am hoping for some smoking gun which not even Arnoldo or Byron can gainsay :-)

    I wish you the best of luck, and I think it is absolutely great you are going! Looking forward to see what you find.
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    Re: Fullerton Archive Searches

    Postby mrpsbrk » 24 Jan 2009 13:33

    Lundse wrote:The first one might give us a clue about Frank's thoughts on computers, and hence the Jihad... I admit I am hoping for some smoking gun which not even Arnoldo or Byron can gainsay :-)


    Actually, i saw something called "Without me you're nothing" called "non-fiction book about computers" guess you'd be more likely to find something there...

    Damn, FH talking about 1968! That should be... interesting.

    But, Omph, it seems "the world is full of treasure" -- as in too much thing on those boxes, it seems, so just have fun and accept our unending envy ;-)
    Marcio (mrpsbrk) does believe in Lord Leto over all other wills and reasons ;-)
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    Postby SandRider » 24 Jan 2009 13:56

    you & I have semi-discussed this elsewhere,
    but have you found out what the rules will be
    regarding copying and dissemination of any
    of this ?

    and you're still thinking of going down for the
    first time in few days ?

    {edit}

    I'm not sure I'm looking at the same list you posted,
    assuming so :

    Under The Jesus Incident, I'm not seeing a listing of
    correspondence with Ransom, but I'm interested in the
    "Box lid with author's notations" - low priority, obviously.

    The box for Without Me, You're Nothing contains
    some personal business material. Wonder why ?

    All the unpublished short stories !!

    2 June 1968 / (assuming from the Examiner)
    (or California Living ?)
    re: Bullit / correspondence & 2 photos w/ Steve
    McQueen

    "Donations by Willis McNelly, 1-88 + Donations Anonymous "

    And of course, obviously, all the Dune notes in the respective
    boxes. I think you know you're not likely to find a "smoking
    gun", and a thorough independent review of the material will
    take a long time. At best, re the Bulterian Jihad controversy,
    you might run across some small notes in the revised copies
    of typescripts that would take some careful study to discover.

    I would not be surprised, however, if things like that were found
    among the archived material, and wouldn't be atall surprised to
    find that Brian has never really studied the material.

    If you can take your camera, I'd like to see how the material
    is being stored, in what kind of place.
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    Re: Fullerton Archive Searches

    Postby Lundse » 24 Jan 2009 14:58

    mrpsbrk wrote:
    Lundse wrote:The first one might give us a clue about Frank's thoughts on computers, and hence the Jihad... I admit I am hoping for some smoking gun which not even Arnoldo or Byron can gainsay :-)


    Actually, i saw something called "Without me you're nothing" called "non-fiction book about computers" guess you'd be more likely to find something there...

    Damn, FH talking about 1968! That should be... interesting.


    Got it. And read it. Interesting in many ways, but no references to his work, unfortunately. But you do get a feel for his understanding of computers - they are not our equals, they are not 'thinking' like we are and they have zero personal impulse to do anything.

    This is a few quotes I found interesting enough to copy out by hand:

      What we have paused to discuss right now is probably the single most important barrier to the widespread useful development of individual computers. It involves a lot of people blathering about their "computer intelligence." According to this scare story, "computer intelligence will win out someday over human intelligence and then we're all going to be in deep trouble."

      We definitly do not want to call them [computers] electronic brains That is the most misleading name to come along.

      We are saying that it is not our tools that are at fault, it's how we use those tools and the beliefs we invest in them.

      We are questioning more than the philosophy behind our dependence upon limited and limiting systems. We question the power structures that have grown up around such systems.


    So, you still have to use your own brain to get from 'Jihad' to 'revolt against machines and machine-thinking' and not to 'ZOMG, robots are killing everyone'.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 24 Jan 2009 17:09

    Cool, I'm jealous Omph!
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    Postby SandChigger » 24 Jan 2009 19:43

    Omph, one thing we eventually need to do sometime down the road is see how much of the material in The Road to Dune actually comes from Fullerton.

    I was under the impression from talking with Teg that there was a copy of the outline for "Spice Planet" in the collection, but I don't see it on the list anywhere. ???
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

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    Postby Omphalos » 24 Jan 2009 19:50

    SandRider wrote:you & I have semi-discussed this elsewhere,
    but have you found out what the rules will be
    regarding copying and dissemination of any
    of this ?

    and you're still thinking of going down for the
    first time in few days ?


    I'll have to see what we have before I can get an idea of ownership. And yes, I will likely go there on Feb 2, but I will be in the area on the 29th so I may go then too.
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    Re: Fullerton Archive Searches

    Postby Omphalos » 24 Jan 2009 19:52

    mrpsbrk wrote:
    Lundse wrote:The first one might give us a clue about Frank's thoughts on computers, and hence the Jihad... I admit I am hoping for some smoking gun which not even Arnoldo or Byron can gainsay :-)


    I have a copy of that one sitting around somewhere. Its got stuff like how to write Apple basic programs, how to balance your checkbook with a computer, and how to make a recipe archive on a 5 1/2 disk and stuff like that. Other parts are about evil computer empires, IIRC.

    (just kidding). It can be gotten at Amazon.
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    Postby Mr. Teg » 25 Jan 2009 01:06

    SandChigger wrote:Omph, one thing we eventually need to do sometime down the road is see how much of the material in The Road to Dune actually comes from Fullerton.

    I was under the impression from talking with Teg that there was a copy of the outline for "Spice Planet" in the collection, but I don't see it on the list anywhere. ???


    I don't think this list covers everything, such as the many recorded interviews mentioned in other works (If I remember correctly, the reference was in either O'Reilly's or Toupounce's book).
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    Postby Omphalos » 25 Jan 2009 12:27

    Mr. Teg wrote:
    SandChigger wrote:Omph, one thing we eventually need to do sometime down the road is see how much of the material in The Road to Dune actually comes from Fullerton.

    I was under the impression from talking with Teg that there was a copy of the outline for "Spice Planet" in the collection, but I don't see it on the list anywhere. ???


    I don't think this list covers everything, such as the many recorded interviews mentioned in other works (If I remember correctly, the reference was in either O'Reilly's or Toupounce's book).


    That's my understanding too. I have both of those books. Touponce refers to a bunch of unpublished interviews in the back, including some done by O'Reilley; but Ill look closer for specifics. Ive been buttering up the librarian on the phone too. Maybe she will let me go into the stacks.
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    Postby SandRider » 25 Jan 2009 13:11

    good idea, lay that groundwork.

    take her a little gift too, when you go, maybe not chocolates,
    but something sweet and consumable ....

    wait a minute, who am I talking to ?
    you know all that, you're an effing lawyer ....
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    Postby Freakzilla » 25 Jan 2009 13:21

    Wow, where to start... You've obviously covered TBJ.

    Spice Cycle.

    Early Imperium, origins of the Landsraad, Sardaukar.

    Formation of the Great Schools. I've always wondered about the other Great Schools not mentioned.

    I haven't read all the way through that list yet, those are just things I'd like to see notes about.
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    Postby Omphalos » 02 Feb 2009 18:00

    Hi all. Im sitting the archives right this second, awaiting delivery of eight boxes on FH's notes from Dune. I have already found two interviews that we did not know about before, and gotten a few other things including an unknown dissertation on a comparison of Muad'dib and Arthur that was second read by McNelly. The reference librarian just showed up, so now I can get the boxes on the bools. 1 hour, 45 minutes to go before they chase me outta here!!!
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    Postby SandRider » 02 Feb 2009 18:29

    FAN-tastic !!
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    Postby Omphalos » 02 Feb 2009 18:47

    Oh maaaaaaan, do I ever have some news for you guys!
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    Postby Freakzilla » 02 Feb 2009 18:50

    Every day is like Christmas around here! :D
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 02 Feb 2009 18:51

    I'm SO exited! :D
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    Postby SandChigger » 02 Feb 2009 18:51

    Omphalos wrote:Oh maaaaaaan, do I ever have some news for you guys!

    :roll:

    Doc-tease. :twisted:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

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    Postby Tleszer » 02 Feb 2009 22:20

    Come on, Mr. Omph, tell us. :mrgreen:
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    Postby SandChigger » 02 Feb 2009 23:03

    Four hours and counting....

    Come on, Omph! Watcha got?
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    Postby Nekhrun » 02 Feb 2009 23:18

    Omphalos wrote:Oh maaaaaaan, do I ever have some news for you guys!

    Cymeks and philosopher brains in jars?
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    Postby Schu » 02 Feb 2009 23:39

    Please please please tell us??
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    Postby SandChigger » 03 Feb 2009 00:47

    Maybe like Bel Moulay he dozed off on the pot? :wink:


    (Meaning the toilet; not saying I think he smokes, or anything. :shock: )
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    Postby Mr. Teg » 03 Feb 2009 02:46

    Omphalos wrote:Hi all. Im sitting the archives right this second, awaiting delivery of eight boxes on FH's notes from Dune. I have already found two interviews that we did not know about before, and gotten a few other things including an unknown dissertation on a comparison of Muad'dib and Arthur that was second read by McNelly. The reference librarian just showed up, so now I can get the boxes on the bools. 1 hour, 45 minutes to go before they chase me outta here!!!


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