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    Frank Herbert's worst novel

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      Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

    Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Mr. Teg

    Postby Lundse » 08 Sep 2008 18:06

    My D:V recommendation - the technobabble is not important, the banter between the characters are. Do NOT try to make sense of it, FH was a great writer, not a revolutionary AI tinkerer! Try to get a feel of the characters as they suggest approaches, discuss, etc.

    Personally, I like FH when he is working slowly (loved Messiah and GEoD too)...
    It's a taste thing I guess (not the moronic 'everything is equally good and I happen to like...' KJA apologetics bullshit, but 'some authors/artists/works have more than one quality to recommend it/him/her, and one can prefer one over the other...')
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    Postby Simon » 09 Sep 2008 16:19

    orald wrote:This thread is an abomination in the eyes of God and his prophet, Frank Herbert! I say we lock it and burn the infidel! :x



    Wow, never thought I'd see the day I agreed with Orald on anything but here we are. BURN THE INFIDEL!!!!! :twisted:

    Seriously, maybe not all of FH's books are "great" but none of them suck. 8)

    As to the worst, I'll say "the Green Brain" and only because it wasn't long enough. :)
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 09 Sep 2008 16:30

    Simon wrote:
    orald wrote:This thread is an abomination in the eyes of God and his prophet, Frank Herbert! I say we lock it and burn the infidel! :x



    Wow, never thought I'd see the day I agreed with Orald on anything but here we are. BURN THE INFIDEL!!!!! :twisted:

    Seriously, maybe not all of FH's books are "great" but none of them suck. 8)

    As to the worst, I'll say "the Green Brain" and only because it wasn't long enough. :)


    I think it was too long. :D (should have been a short five page story)
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    Postby Omphalos » 09 Sep 2008 16:34

    Didnt the Green Brain come from a short story called Greenslaves?
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 09 Sep 2008 16:44

    News to me if so.
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    Postby Nekhrun » 09 Sep 2008 17:37

    Secher Nbiw wrote:Apparently I'm the only person who loved Godmakers. It was fun, it was light, it had a lot of Dune-elements locked into the story...

    Nope. I think it was the first non-Dune FH book I read. I remember really liking it, I'll have to check it out again.

    I still say Green Brain is the worst.
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    Postby Hunchback Jack » 21 Oct 2008 21:24

    Nekhrun wrote:I still say Green Brain is the worst.


    White Plague for me. But then, I haven't read Green Brain or a bunch of his others.

    Liked D:V and the other Pandora novels a lot, FWIW.

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    Postby SandChigger » 21 Oct 2008 22:36

    I'm not prepared at the moment to venture an opinion as to his worst novel.

    But I think his worst work was that first son....

    :P
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby Hunchback Jack » 22 Oct 2008 00:18

    SandChigger wrote:I'm not prepared at the moment to venture an opinion as to his worst novel.

    But I think his worst work was that first son....

    :P


    ZZZING!

    Nice one, Chig.

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    Postby dunaddict » 06 Dec 2008 13:45

    SandChigger wrote:But I think his worst work was that first son....
    :P


    Ouch. That's gotta hurt. Good thing he avoids the internet.

    Back on topic. I just finished 'The white plague'. I've now read four of FH's non-Dune books:

    The Eyes of Heisenberg
    The Godmakers
    The White Plague
    The Green Brain

    - I can say nothing bad about 'the eyes of heisenberg'. Good story.

    - The godmakers was a special case. The first few 'stories' were excellent. But the last one desolves into very deep FH philosophy and I couldn't tell what the hell was happening.... Still, overall it was pretty good.

    Now the worst story. I can't make up my mind.

    The White Plague:
    + Exciting and well done start of the plague
    + Interesting characters
    - Middle section drags and drags and drags........
    - Weird, unsatisfying ending(s).

    The Green brain
    + Interesting beginning. Makes you think about what's happening.
    - Second half of the books is boring. And I mean BORING.

    My gut tells me I should prefer 'The white plague', but on the other hand....It took me 3 days to read 'the Green brain' and 3 weeks to read 'the white plague'.

    What do you think?
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    Postby TheDukester » 06 Dec 2008 15:39

    dunaddict wrote:- Middle section drags and drags and drags........

    Too right.

    There's lots of walking in the middle sections ... and there was lots of me reaching for other books. :wink:

    Not my favorite FH, by any means.
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    Postby Spicelon » 06 Dec 2008 20:30

    Tleszer wrote:
    orald wrote:
    Tleszer wrote:I just acquired a used copy of Destination: Void for $1. Perhaps after I finish A Clash of Kings I'll start reading it. Is it really bad? Regardless, I'm sure its worth the $1 I spent on it.

    No, no! You must continue to A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows and only then read D:V!

    Uh, shit, I'm locked between FH and GRRM, help! :o



    I hope ADwD actually gets out by the end of the year, I need my Jon&Arya&Tyrion fix baaaaad... :cry:


    OK! I'll continue with A Song of Ice and Fire. :lol: So far I think my favorite character is Tyrion. I like how almost no one is safe from his wit.


    Tyrion is aces, baby!!
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    Postby Sev » 31 Mar 2009 16:06

    Not that its a bad book by any means, but The White Plague is my least fondly remembered FH reading experience. I just remember it taking so damn long...
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    Postby Schu » 31 Mar 2009 16:48

    I found the White Plague one of Frank's best, right up there with the Dunes.

    Probably my least favourite would have to be Direct Descent. IT felt like Frank thought the idea was a lot neater than it really was.
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    Postby SwordMaster » 31 Mar 2009 18:53

    Well guys, lots of opinion but I can tell you all for sure that his worst book is in fact the one he co-wrote with his son.

    Hard to even find a copy of this thing it reads like a poor grade 11 writing assignment that was corrected by Frank. Then it becomes more and more clear that Frank took over to finish the thing, in a haphazrd manner. Probally to try and fight off yet another bout of depression for poor Brian. Sad really.

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    Postby SandChigger » 31 Mar 2009 20:19

    Um ... well, IIRC Frank died before it went to print, so Brian is actually the last one to have had his nasty little handses on it.

    That doesn't, of course, mean that Frank didn't extensively rewrite Brian's stuff.

    I got a copy of it last year (or so?), but after rereading the cover blurb and leafing through it a few times, I've never been able to get into it. The whole premise just seems so fucking stupid, you know?

    Like a giant comet made of garbage aimed at Earth...the idea stinks of Brian Herbert. :vomit:
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    Postby SwordMaster » 01 Apr 2009 08:22

    SandChigger wrote:Um ... well, IIRC Frank died before it went to print, so Brian is actually the last one to have had his nasty little handses on it.

    That doesn't, of course, mean that Frank didn't extensively rewrite Brian's stuff.

    I got a copy of it last year (or so?), but after rereading the cover blurb and leafing through it a few times, I've never been able to get into it. The whole premise just seems so fucking stupid, you know?

    Like a giant comet made of garbage aimed at Earth...the idea stinks of Brian Herbert. :vomit:


    Yeah like I said, Frank did this to keep Brian from falling into yet another deep depression. Its like he sacrificed his own pride to give lil’ Brian a chance to "make a book" like his dad. The result was a book that seems as though it was corrected and re wrote in areas to make it not a complete disaster. You know it was Brian’s idea and Frank sort of had to try to make the thing viable for a novel.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Apr 2009 14:11

    I haven't read it since I was a kid, but I remember thinking it was okay... of course I was also reading DragonLance and Terry Goodkind at the time so my judgement was less than ideal. Don't see myself re-reading it anytime soon.
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    Postby SwordMaster » 01 Apr 2009 14:17

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:I haven't read it since I was a kid, but I remember thinking it was okay... of course I was also reading DragonLance and Terry Goodkind at the time so my judgement was less than ideal. Don't see myself re-reading it anytime soon.


    I dont know why anyone would read it again, although if you still have your copy its fairly rare since its been out of print for so long and will never see a 2nd print. If you actually made it through the first time around, you have suffered enough. Not that its so bad, as you said its okay, Frank did make it okay but he had to make gold out of mud, and there is only so much one can do to pull a rabbit out of a hat.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Apr 2009 14:20

    SwordMaster wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:I haven't read it since I was a kid, but I remember thinking it was okay... of course I was also reading DragonLance and Terry Goodkind at the time so my judgement was less than ideal. Don't see myself re-reading it anytime soon.


    I dont know why anyone would read it again, although if you still have your copy its fairly rare since its been out of print for so long and will never see a 2nd print. If you actually made it through the first time around, you have suffered enough. Not that its so bad, as you said its okay, Frank did make it okay but he had to make gold out of mud, and there is only so much one can do to pull a rabbit out of a hat.


    I have the hardcover, but it's pretty beat up.
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    Postby SandChigger » 01 Apr 2009 18:14

    SwordMaster wrote:there is only so much one can do to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

    Or a real writer out of a spineless twat.
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    Postby Tleszer » 01 Apr 2009 18:45

    SandChigger wrote:
    SwordMaster wrote:there is only so much one can do to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

    Or a real writer out of a spineless twat.


    You have such a wonderful way with words, Chig. :D
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    Postby SandChigger » 01 Apr 2009 20:03

    Well, it almost rhymed. :P
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    Re:

    Postby Raveem » 27 Oct 2009 14:15

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    orald wrote:This thread is an abomination in the eyes of God and his prophet, Frank Herbert! I say we lock it and burn the infidel! :x


    Didn't see that coming :roll:

    The Green Brain, it just wasn't that good. I honestly think that if it didn't have FH on the cover no one would think very much of it.


    I quite liked that one :).

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    Re: Re:

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 27 Oct 2009 14:19

    Raveem wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    orald wrote:This thread is an abomination in the eyes of God and his prophet, Frank Herbert! I say we lock it and burn the infidel! :x


    Didn't see that coming :roll:

    The Green Brain, it just wasn't that good. I honestly think that if it didn't have FH on the cover no one would think very much of it.


    I quite liked that one :).

    Raveem.


    Most people other than me did...

    The funny thing was that I was complaining that it felt like a short story that had been painfully stretched into a novel - I later found out that it actually was a short stretched into a novel.
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