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    Frank Herbert's worst novel

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      Non-Dune Frank Herbert Book Discussion

    Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Mr. Teg

    Postby SandChigger » 29 Jul 2008 19:45

    Contact TAZ. He's in "T-dot". :lol:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby Omphalos » 29 Jul 2008 20:12

    SandChigger wrote:Contact TAZ. He's in "T-dot". :lol:


    I never figured out what the fuck that meant.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 29 Jul 2008 22:21

    Omphalos wrote:
    SandChigger wrote:Contact TAZ. He's in "T-dot". :lol:


    I never figured out what the fuck that meant.


    Toronto. Gods know why some people call it that.
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    Postby SandChigger » 30 Jul 2008 01:06

    I always figured it was just some code message to Uncle You-Know-Who-vin.

    Like, "You're still the only one who can dot my 'I's. Love, from Toronto."

    ( i )

    :shock:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby martinburo » 05 Aug 2008 14:43

    Freakzilla, I think you really do need to reread TJI. Ship is in about every chapter, talking to all the good guys. Well, I'm not quite sure that Flattery is a good guy, but at least he's more misguided than bad on purpose.

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    Postby Freakzilla » 05 Aug 2008 14:52

    martinburo wrote:Freakzilla, I think you really do need to reread TJI. Ship is in about every chapter, talking to all the good guys. Well, I'm not quite sure that Flattery is a good guy, but at least he's more misguided than bad on purpose.

    Baraka, how about ebay?


    But we learn almost nothing about ship except that he's added on some grow rooms. Maybe FH wanted Ship to be mysterious, but I was left craving more. I only read it a few months ago.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 05 Aug 2008 15:26

    Freakzilla wrote:
    martinburo wrote:Freakzilla, I think you really do need to reread TJI. Ship is in about every chapter, talking to all the good guys. Well, I'm not quite sure that Flattery is a good guy, but at least he's more misguided than bad on purpose.

    Baraka, how about ebay?


    But we learn almost nothing about ship except that he's added on some grow rooms. Maybe FH wanted Ship to be mysterious, but I was left craving more. I only read it a few months ago.


    Left curious about what exactly he'd been up to with the history of humanity? I was left wanting more of that myself, but I guess it wasn't really necessary to the story, and FH figured it was better left up to people's imaginations.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 05 Aug 2008 15:33

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    martinburo wrote:Freakzilla, I think you really do need to reread TJI. Ship is in about every chapter, talking to all the good guys. Well, I'm not quite sure that Flattery is a good guy, but at least he's more misguided than bad on purpose.

    Baraka, how about ebay?


    But we learn almost nothing about ship except that he's added on some grow rooms. Maybe FH wanted Ship to be mysterious, but I was left craving more. I only read it a few months ago.


    Left curious about what exactly he'd been up to with the history of humanity? I was left wanting more of that myself, but I guess it wasn't really necessary to the story, and FH figured it was better left up to people's imaginations.


    We'd better stop talking about this before Pinky & The Brian start writing VoidShip books. They'd probably do a 12 book series for each incarnation of humanity.
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    Postby Nekhrun » 05 Aug 2008 16:11

    I know I said Heaven Makers earlier in this thread, but I'm changing my answer, this weekend I just read The Green Brain. That one took me awhile and now takes my #1 spot on the worst list. Soul Catcher wasn't bad though.
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    Postby Tleilax Master B » 05 Aug 2008 16:49

    I think we have now firmly established that Dune Messiah is the worst book :P It must be if PoD is better.......
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    Postby Freakzilla » 05 Aug 2008 16:51

    Tleilax Master B wrote:I think we have now firmly established that Dune Messiah is the worst book :P It must be if PoD is better.......


    Irrefutable logic. :puke:
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    Postby Spicelon » 05 Aug 2008 17:10

    Freakzilla wrote:
    Tleilax Master B wrote:I think we have now firmly established that Dune Messiah is the worst book :P It must be if PoD is better.......


    Irrefutable logic. :puke:


    Plus it makes sense.
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    Postby SandChigger » 05 Aug 2008 21:11

    Freakzilla wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:...I was left craving more.
    ...
    We'd better stop talking about this before Pinky & The Brian start writing VoidShip books. They'd probably do a 12 book series for each incarnation of humanity.

    I was thinking the same thing as I read your first comment. :shock: DON'T give them any ideas!!!
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby Mr. Teg » 04 Sep 2008 11:13

    SandChigger wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:...I was left craving more.
    ...
    We'd better stop talking about this before Pinky & The Brian start writing VoidShip books. They'd probably do a 12 book series for each incarnation of humanity.

    I was thinking the same thing as I read your first comment. :shock: DON'T give them any ideas!!!


    But, I assume part of the copyright still belongs to Ransom (Chig had mentioned that Ransom is only a couple years older than Brian, and considering all the time Frank spent with him "coffee every morning" gotta wonder if some jealously not involved).
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    Postby Omphalos » 04 Sep 2008 11:56

    I wonder if BH has ever blown off Ransom?
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    Postby SandChigger » 04 Sep 2008 12:39

    I mentioned that to Teg the other day after having gone through DoD looking for info on the plane thing. Brian describes his father and Ransom's relationship as being extraordinarily close despite the difference in their ages, and I couldn't help but wonder if there wasn't some jealousy involved at the time. (Or afterwards.)

    They (Brian and the HLP) certainly didn't treat McNelly, another FH friend, very well, now did they?

    :?:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Postby Lundse » 05 Sep 2008 04:03

    I absolutely loved The White Plague - it came cose to Dune in the many layers of themes, and depth of the main characters. That said, it is sort of detectiv-y and slow; I just liked that too.
    And I loved the president scenes, which said a lot about FH's looks on power and politics.

    Destination: Void and beyond I liked, but they were, in terms of craftmanship, worldbuilding and execution, not nearly as good as Dune. You got the idea of cool characters, themes, plot and exposition on religion; but it never rang as... deep as FH's best work. Not bad books, IMO, but neither were they great - OK-good books with great themes.


    The worst:

    The Green Brain. One idea, drawn out only to be hammered home by character exposition in the end - no good.

    Direct Descent. Childrens stuff, not very well done. You got the idea of a single FH theme hiding in there, but it went nowhere.

    The Godmakers. Was only saved by being so goddamned weird and seeming like an over-the-top star trek episode. There was ideas and themes in there, but man did it fly by fast.
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    Postby Secher Nbiw » 08 Sep 2008 09:41

    Apparently I'm the only person who loved Godmakers. It was fun, it was light, it had a lot of Dune-elements locked into the story...

    the Tleilaxu were in there, you even had the Bene Gesserit making an appearance...

    but the novel I really disliked... Destination Void... I could not get through that one. It was just too much gobbly-gook and mumbo jumbo. I like the Organic Mental Cores as a concept... but after that... it just failed to keep me interested.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 08 Sep 2008 11:05

    Secher Nbiw wrote:Apparently I'm the only person who loved Godmakers. It was fun, it was light, it had a lot of Dune-elements locked into the story...

    the Tleilaxu were in there, you even had the Bene Gesserit making an appearance...

    but the novel I really disliked... Destination Void... I could not get through that one. It was just too much gobbly-gook and mumbo jumbo. I like the Organic Mental Cores as a concept... but after that... it just failed to keep me interested.


    You really should finish D:V, the ending is great.
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    Postby Secher Nbiw » 08 Sep 2008 11:40

    Freakzilla wrote:You really should finish D:V, the ending is great.


    I got to the end eventually, but the whole trip wasn't a pleasant one. It just dragged.

    It's got a couple of smashing ideas... but the excecution is just so dull and lifeless that those ideas just fall away.
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    Postby Tleszer » 08 Sep 2008 12:23

    I just acquired a used copy of Destination: Void for $1. Perhaps after I finish A Clash of Kings I'll start reading it. Is it really bad? Regardless, I'm sure its worth the $1 I spent on it.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 08 Sep 2008 12:31

    Tleszer wrote:I just acquired a used copy of Destination: Void for $1. Perhaps after I finish A Clash of Kings I'll start reading it. Is it really bad? Regardless, I'm sure its worth the $1 I spent on it.


    It's got a lot of technobable about their attempt at building an AI, but if you can get past that or understand that, it's good.
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    Postby orald » 08 Sep 2008 12:53

    Tleszer wrote:I just acquired a used copy of Destination: Void for $1. Perhaps after I finish A Clash of Kings I'll start reading it. Is it really bad? Regardless, I'm sure its worth the $1 I spent on it.

    No, no! You must continue to A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows and only then read D:V!

    Uh, shit, I'm locked between FH and GRRM, help! :o



    I hope ADwD actually gets out by the end of the year, I need my Jon&Arya&Tyrion fix baaaaad... :cry:
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 08 Sep 2008 14:27

    D:V = Good. It's dryer than a Churchill martini, but it's good.
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    Postby Tleszer » 08 Sep 2008 14:49

    orald wrote:
    Tleszer wrote:I just acquired a used copy of Destination: Void for $1. Perhaps after I finish A Clash of Kings I'll start reading it. Is it really bad? Regardless, I'm sure its worth the $1 I spent on it.

    No, no! You must continue to A Storm of Swords and A Feast for Crows and only then read D:V!

    Uh, shit, I'm locked between FH and GRRM, help! :o



    I hope ADwD actually gets out by the end of the year, I need my Jon&Arya&Tyrion fix baaaaad... :cry:


    OK! I'll continue with A Song of Ice and Fire. :lol: So far I think my favorite character is Tyrion. I like how almost no one is safe from his wit.
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